John Zorn

[Coypu]

This guy is considered to be a jazz player? I could swear JazzyPaul said so atleast.

Anyways, I got some mp3's of his stuff and of what I have heard sofar he dominates so I was wondering if anyone could recomend me his best songs.

Thanks.

[jazzypaul]

Zorn's a strange cat. I once read a critic say that Jazz is too small for Zorn, which is kind of right. He does and plays everything. Naked City, Spillane and to a lesser extent, Spy vs. Spy were all Thrash-Jazz fusions, and are truly amazing, if for nothing else, the sheer vastness of their scope. Masada is a free-klezmer group made up of all Jewish Musicians, and that is some of the best music I have heard, regardless of genre. He has gotten behind John Patton and recorded with him, he's done music so freeform that it's not music (for anyone unfortunate enough to hear the Cobra discs -- it's gotta be fascinating to watch though) and tributes to Ornette Coleman, Sonny Clark and Japanese Cinema. The dude is a madman. And he is truly the most extreme (I now hate to use that term) jazzman I think the world has ever known. And he can swing. Hard.

[Coypu]

I listened through lots of jazz songs today and I was not very impressed but then Zorn came up and I was like "wtf, this shit is really good". This is the kind of jazz (or what you call it) that I have been looking for. The songs are amazing, this guy has some truly fine things going on for sure. Reminds me ALOT about Mr Bungle, not sure if you are familiar with them but Mike Patton is the vocalist for them and I have seen that Zorn does some songs with Patton. Mr Bungle is actually inspired by the Fusion-Death band Atheist... Anyways, do you know any more artists like this because this is what I have been looking for. ?

[jazzypaul]

I will give you all of the information that you could ever hope to have, on two conditions...

1) you stop posting on the death metal threads that are here now, and you don't make any new ones.

2) Promise that you will never again attempt to tell anyone here at any time at any point in any conversation that death metal even has traits that are better than jazz. you have destroyed the vibe of the room.

When I get the promise of those two things, and I see those two threads slip down the charts a little bit, I will let you in on everyone out there doing anything even remotely close to that.

Fair enough?

[Coypu]

1) I made a peace offer in death-jazz, it is now up to you guys.

2) I will if they ask for it.

[jazzypaul]

Alright man, you've been civil in your discussion with DW, so I'll let this one fly, here goes...

Insofar as anyone doing anything like Zorn, you're out of luck, he's the dude when it comes to jazz-grindcore. However, there are others that you will probably enjoy if you like what he's doing...

Ken Vandermark: especially two of his projects called Steelwool and Caffeine.

David Fiuczinski: Screaming Headless Torsos. This is actually his rock band, but if you can find this, you might find his jazz stuff as well. And yes, he plays with that tone all of the time.

Ronald Shannon Jackson and the Decoding Society: good luck finding any of his stuff, but if you like Zorn there's a good chance you might like this.

Vernon Reid (the guitarist from Living Color) has done a few jazz projects and has laid the smackdown whenever he's in the studio.

Sonny Sharrock: this is a wild card. You may like him, you may not. He's certainly a fiery player, that's for sure. His intensity level is damn high most of the time. Most jazzers' favorite album of his is called Ask The Ages. You may or may not like that album.

Derek Bailey: most jazz people don't even call him a jazzer, they call him a noise maker. He may be right up your alley. Just make sure you get his electric stuff. From what I've heard, his duets with Metheny are so loud that most jazzers don't like it. Personally, I like them.

Charles Gayle: if its sheer intensity that you're looking for, this is the guy for you. But I think he does it at the expense of being musical whatsoever.

There is more where this came from. If you ever look into it, you'll see, I came from where you're coming from now. I just made the transition quicker, and have been listening to jazz for a lot longer of a time. Instead of bashing my music, whenever you ask nicely, I will always be more than happy to give examples.

By the way, the Zorn stuff that you really want is by the groups: Naked City and Painkiller. Let me know when you can handle some acoustic music, and I'll lay some Masada on you.

[Coypu]

Thanks, I'm gonna check them out.

[Joel]

Derek Bailey: most jazz people don't even call him a jazzer, they call him a noise maker. He may be right up your alley. Just make sure you get his electric stuff. From what I've heard, his duets with Metheny are so loud that most jazzers don't like it. Personally, I like them.

I still remember what Jazziz describes, "The Sign Of 4" (the Bailey/Metheny Project)....."sounds like a giant sheet metal being torn apart by robot arms"

[markvi]

try some nils petter molvaer. he's a trumpet player but his music is very new.

[jazzypaul]

Joel, as a Metheny fan, what do you think of Zero Tolerance For Silence?

[Joel]

sorry jazzypaul, I dont have that one.

I had a chance at a second hand store to buy it when it was being displayed but there were these opinions that I read that keep coming back to my mind saying, "White noise and distortion" :D ...so I left it.

The most "less accessible" Metheny music that I could comprehend is probably only up to "Song X".

[jazzypaul]

For me, the way to approach Zero Tolerance was as more of an extension of Sonic Youth than as an extension of Gary Burton (which all of Metheny's work basically is). It's NOT jazz, but it is interesting.

[omar zamora]

Coypu,

Without knowing which Zorn record(s) you've listened to, it's hard to get an idea what to recommend. As Jazzypaul pointed out, the cat's all over the place. Everything from surf music, free jazz, Ornette-inspired reinterpretation of Jewish music (Masada), chamber works, sometimes bop, film-inspired music, etc.

[lazy bird]

interview with Zorn:

http://www.bombsite.com/zorn/zorn.html


Coypu,

Maybe you're interested in the fact Slayer drummer Dave Lombardo collaborated in a Zorn game piece:


http://www.tzadik.com/CDSections/TzadikArchivalSeries/xufeng.html

[lazy bird]

Coypu,

Altough I like Zorn's classical music and his rock influenced stuff like Naked City, I prefer his acoustic jazz quartet Masada. Zorn wrote around 200 songs drawn from Jewish folk melodies which he performs with his Masada quartet.

recommendend Masada cd's:

live in Middelheim

http://www.tzadik.com/CDSections/TzadikArchivalSeries/masada_middlheim.html
live at Tonic

http://www.tzadik.com/CDSections/TzadikArchivalSeries/masada_tonic.html

If you like metal, check Zorn's Painkiller stuff. Painkiller was first released on the Earache label, but is now available on Zorn's TZADIK label. Napalm Death vocalist Mick Harris features on some of Painkiller's music.

http://www.tzadik.com/CDSections/TzadikArchivalSeries/pkcoll.html

[Coypu]

Very interesing guy, the interview said alot about his persona and he seems to be a true artist for sure.

I have some Masada and it's pretty good. I prefer his weirder stuff over it though but it is all good.

I'm gonna download and listen as much as I can, I only have 23 songs sofar so I'll be back when I have heard some more.

[omar zamora]

Originally posted by Coypu
I have some Masada and it's pretty good. I prefer his weirder stuff over it though but it is all good.

Try his Cobra stuff.

[jazzypaul]

It gets NO weirder than Cobra. But Cobra isn't even music. It's Twister set to musical instruments. Which is kinda cool to see live and all...

[lazy bird]

Who's familiar with John Zorn's chamber music? Which album shall I buy: 'Bar Kokhba' or 'The circle maker'?

[jazzypaul]

I'heard Bar Kokhba, and it's fabulous.