Roy Haynes' drum technique

[Pharaohrock]

Any drummers out there??? I was wondering if there was anyone who could tell me exactly why Roy seems to have a more dense sound these days.....it seems like he is using some really resonant-sounding toms. Is this just the way he tunes them or are they pretty big drums?? There is definitely a difference between his sound now and his sound 1960s-era, because some of the fills he plays (involving toms) are pretty loud. He used to just play aggressive snare drum fills like you hear on Andrew Hill's "Black Fire" on Subterranean for example, all the time. Now he's def. brought the toms more clearly into play.

[jazzypaul]

Last time I saw him, he was still on the standard 18/14/14/12 be-bop set-up. I also heard him at the beginning of a week, and he was breaking in new heads, so he was intentionally beating the hell out of the drums. In the last couple of years he's definitely started breaking up things around the kit a little bit more. He plays Yamaha drums, and Yamaha came out with a thinner shelled set of their top of the line drums (same ones I play, awww yeah...) If he went to them, yes, his sound would be more naturally resonant due to the fact that he's simply playing on lighter drums which can vibrate more freely due to the reduced weight. I hope this helped somehow, even though I'm sure it didn't...

[Pharaohrock]

Maybe a lot of what I'm hearing is just improvement in drum technology. I'd swear though that some of the sounds he gets out of those Toms sound almost rock-ish or ike something Dennis Chambers would play....

btw, what is your opinion of the Roy Haynes custom snare drum made by Yamaha? i was looking at it with a friend (drummer) and it's like 475.00! It's a copper snare. Do you play a copper or maple snare man?

[jazzypaul]

I'm playing maple now, only because I lost my shirt to get this kit, and it came with a maple, and my snare that I use for funk gigs is a maple piccolo. Personally, I'm a fan of both copper and brass. I like the highs on those snares. Maples are too meaty for me.

[jomina]

Hi, first post. Great to find a jazz forum that's alive :cool:
Interesting question. I recently picked up a new Haynes album "Love Letters" on the eighty-eights (http://www.eighty-eights.com) label from Japan.
The changed sound is probably due in part to the equipment he currently uses, but is also because they record things differently now. And modern taste possibly leans more towards putting the percussion higher in the mix (maybe?). Live, of course, is a different story.
IMMHO, he still has something special to offer. I'm not a musician, and I don't have the technical vocabulary to really express myself here, but he has a swing and a deftness of touch you don't get too much anymore (there are plenty of great young and not so young drummers out there - it's not a criticism). Something rooted perhaps in the dance music of the 30s and 40s, rather than say Fusion...

[Jazz]

Jomina, that's a pretty specific and educated opinion for someone who's not a musician! Welcome to AAJ

[Pharaohrock]

Recording has a lot to do with it i'm sure. If you think about it everything sounds loud on studio records...

Someone just told me though that you can get more of a bass element from a tom by loosening the top head quite a bit and totally tightening the bottom one. Care to shed any light on that Paul?

[jomina]

Thanks for the welcome. I'm rather out of my depth, but there is a lot to learn on here - and that's always cool.
I guess a major difference between now and "then" is that drums will almost always be close miked now. Guessing here, but I don't think the basic process for recording an "acoustic" jazz album has changed that much since RVG's heyday in terms of how musicians approach the process.
Anyway, a high point on the Love Letters album for me is Dave Holland's bass solo on Afro Blue, as much for the way Haynes punctuates / anticipates Holland and works with him to keep the whole thing in the groove(s), as for Holland's fretwork. The true sense of tight but loose (all IMMHO).

[jazzypaul]

Basically, the whole idea of drum tuning is this, in a nutshell: top head controls pitch and sound, bottom head controls attack. so if you kept the top head relatively loose (which Roy doesn't) and kept the bottom head tight, you would get a lower pitch with a lot of punch to it. This is why a lot of guys I know (myself included) play with THICKER heads on the bottom than on the top. It allows for maximum attack and maximum tone. I don't know if Tony did this, but the end result is the same. I've got a Tony/Bill Stewart thing going tone wise. If only I was even 1/4 as hip as either of them on their worst day...

[3pointdeli]

i read somewhere that the "classic" blue note drum sound was generally achieved by placing the mics near the drummer's ears. i don't know if this is true, but if so it would make sense that the snare drum, ride cymbal and high hats (all high pitched sounds) would be the most prominent aspects of the drum sound. does anyone know if this was, in fact, their method of micing drums?

drums seem to have a lot more punch nowadays, even when tuned up high. fortunately, were in a time when drummaking is the best it's been since the '60s.

[bombastic]

roy haynes and elvin jones! i'm no technician and to me music is about emotion. speaking of jazz not being old folks music, these guys are both 75 years old and play like they are 25, so, so much for the age argument. jazz is for all ages, timeless music for open minded human beings, and these 2 drummers are proof of that. you don't have to be young to be hip,in reality, you have to be old and sophisticated to be truly hip. young people pretend they are hip,wisdom comes through years of experience. god bless haynes and jones, may they both live to be 125! check out birds of a feather by haynes. no matter what age a musician is, he is always a beginner. pat martino told me this, and the guy should know! i''m in my second year on tenor saxophone, so, i'm an extreme beginner. Rome wasn't built in a day. We all need to learn the lessons of these fantastic musicians who wrote the History of Jazz with their joyous sound!(i guess i should say they play like they are 75! meaning that in the best possible way!) their physical condition is like 25.

[lorenzini]

He has the most boomy, resonant drum sound I've seen.

I saw a picture of him at the set recently and I have noticed that the snare is HUGGGGGE! Am I wrong?

[3pointdeli]

the current issue of modern drummer magazine has a cover story/interview on roy haynes and a "style analysis" article.

[Bakin']

Question... Haynes uses Yamaha Maple... The spec sheet on his kit says that he plays the 12"x8" MTT1012J small tom (for example) while his 'gear' page labels it as MTT1312J... Does anyone know the difference between '1012' and '1312' ?

[mlm]

Jazz drummers go for a more resonant and open sound than say, rock drummers. Including the bass drum. No ports in the head, no laundry or muffling rings. Single ply heads. 30 degree bearing edges. I think modern recording equip. and techniques are just giving a more realistic sound than the old '60's recordings.