Is 16 years old too late to start?

[Jazz Kid]

In the past two years, I have truly discovered how great music is, and how much I enjoy it in my life. I now have decided that I may want to learn to play an instrument. I honetsly have no idea what it could be, but my choices are wide open. Anyway, my question is, is 16 years old too late to start playing? I know a lot of people begin playing a few years earlier. what do you guys think? what age did you start playing your instrument?

[Pete B]

I picked up the double bass at age 20, mostly just to play bluegrass jams with my friends. I didn't begin to play seriously until my mid-30's. I played in my first jazz band at age 39. Call me a late bloomer.

The drummer in the regular trio I play in decided to begin jazz piano at age 35. He doesn't expect to play out regularly, but he has found tremendous satisfaction.

I'd say at age 16 you'll do just fine. You've got the time and the energy to go as far as your talent will let you. Find yourself a good teacher, prepare to work hard, and have fun.

[Jazz Kid]

Thanks:pimp:

[andreimatorin]

Cliche, but true... It's never too late. I have a friend who although had played some sax before, has only been playing guitar for 3 years. He worked his ass off and is an Amazing jazz guitarist! I'm so amazed, and i do know something about music. It just depends on how hard you're willing to work. If it's not very, then starting at an early age gives u an advantage... But if you're devoted and motivated, it's really never too late to start!! Just make sure you have fun in the process.

[El Gaucho]

No man, 16 isn't. I played guitar for about 7 years on and off, so i knew my way somewhat around the instrument, but didnt pick it up all junior year of high school to try other shit. Then all of a sudden i found myself hooked into jazz, and decided to pick it back up. That was around 10 months ago. I had no chops and didnt know shit about the music or how to play it, jsut that i was really feelin it. Now I have already got into the Jazz Major at City College (Jhon Pattitittuci runs my program).

You need to work really hard tho... If u just want to screw around on the instrument not really, but if u decide to pursue music as your career and life search, then you need to be at your instrument everyday for at least like 2/3 hours.

The beginning will be really frustrating, but the improvement is exponential. I'm literally 10 times better than i was half a year ago.

Go for it, but dedicate yourself to it.
(How do you think Trane did it???)

[solarjazzband]

The eatlier, the better of course. But 16 is a age that you're really aware of what you're doing, and you can really go for it. So it may be that what you learn now in 1 year, it would take 2 years if you was 7 years old.

If I look to myself, I started when I was 5 years old (now 11 years ago). If I would start right now (as I'm 16 too), I think I would get to the level I am now in about 4 years.

So, again, the earlier the better, but 16 is a good age to start! Just buy some beginners-book, and see what you think.

Oh yea, I see everybody's telling that you have to work very very hard, but I would suggest first see if you feel comfortable with it (and I'm sure you will, as you are already into music a lot). Than if you decide to continue, don't overwork. Be careful, it has to be fun still. Working hard is not everything, you also have to think clearly, etc. Many good teachers say: You are HOW to practise, and NOT the AMOUNT of practise time. They're right.

My father is guitar teacher for living, 60 percent of his students are from age 5 to 16. Some start with 5, some with 16, and I hear no difference between them...

If you want to know more (as my father is experienced with teaching young people, just ask).

PS what instrument are you thinking about?

[Jazz Kid]

Originally posted by solarjazzband


PS what instrument are you thinking about? [/B]

I honestly have no idea, yet. I could see myself enjoying playing guitar, bass, drums, piano, or even trumpet, sax, etc.

[solarjazzband]

Originally posted by Jazz Kid
sex

Sax I think :D :D

I forgot something to say: Wes Montgomery started when he was 19...

[Jazz Kid]

Originally posted by solarjazzband
Sax I think :D :D

I forgot something to say: Wes Montgomery started when he was 19...

wow, what a horrendous typo....

[Jamming With Edward]

I started playing guitar when I was 15, bass guitar at 17, and drums at 23. I ended up drumming in a blues band, a fusion band, and I just started playing with my second straight-ahead jazz combo, and I've put about 15 years of semi-professional playing away at this point. It's never too late to start!

[Wombat Seedcake]

there are quite a few great guitar players who started out quite late, some as late as their early 20s.

I began guitar and bass at 15 and certain percussion like djembe, dumbek only 5 years ago and now I play all these semi-pro.

16's certainly not too late at all. good luck with it.

[Muskrat Ramble]

Never too late to start. I started guitar--um--rather later :) than 16 and within a year I was playing somewhat difficult rock songs (both rhythm and solo parts), transcribing, improvising (albeit rather simply compared to jazz), composing (again rather simple stuff, but hey), etc.

Do yourself a huge favor and just give it a try. You may love it, you may hate it. It doesn't matter; just give it a shot and see what you think. Don't go through your life saying, "Boy, I wish I had played an instrument." If you do start playing, always remember two things: it's supposed to be fun and make sure to play at least a little every day. Five minutes really is better than nothing. Also, don't mentally divide practicing and playing into two different categories: it's all playing, and it should all be fun (though you will need to do some hard work and possibly some boring exercises if you want to get really good). Some people turn "practice" into some drudge work they feel they have to suffer through before they can play. That attitude is all wrong and counterproductive. If you look around, you can find fun, "musical-sounding" exercises that you can directly apply to improvising, songwriting, etc.

One more thing: make sure that, along with more formal study, you goof around a lot on the instrument. It's too easy to say, "I'm just a beginner, I can't improvise or compose because I don't know what I'm doing and it'll suck!" Avoid that defeatist, wimpy attitude! Trust me: just fiddle around and play any old thing and see what you might come up with, see what sounds good or doesn't. You'll be amazed how much you can learn that way.

Many good teachers say: You are HOW to practise, and NOT the AMOUNT of practise time. They're right.

Thoroughly agree. Smart practice is far better than any old practice. When you sit down to learn an exercise or scale or song, focus carefully on what you're hearing (the most important part of music-making is your ear!), the parts you're having trouble with technically and why (isolate them and practice them slowly and repeatedly until you can get them up to speed), etc. Above I suggested goofing around a lot, but don't be tempted to goof around every time you run into difficulties with a particular piece--do it as something separate so it doesn't become a way to avoid the hard stuff. And like they say, practice what's hard for you, not what's easy. Sure, have fun playing the one riff or tune you know really well, but don't launch into that every time you get frustrated learning something harder.

[solarjazzband]

Many times it happens that one really wants to play (i.e.) guitar, they take lessons, full of enthousiasm, and than... Oh ! Homework!

[bombastic]

Muskrat-good points. what's your instrument? Persistence is the key. If an exercise is difficult-just keep practicing it. If you give up, you'll never get it. If you keep practicing, through the difficulty, eventually you'll get it.

[bombastic]

Don't worry about age." How old would you be if you didn't know how old you were?"-Satchell Page

[Muskrat Ramble]

I could see myself enjoying playing guitar, bass, drums, piano, or even trumpet, sax, etc.

If you decide to play something, try to go with your heart when you choose your instrument, no matter how seemingly impractical, odd, or whatever.

I play guitar, so I can tell you some advantages of that instrument, fwiw:

* Reasonably easy to learn the basics, though as with all instruments, expect to put some real time and effort into it. You won't learn any instrument overnight.

* You can get a nice first guitar for around $200 (if it's an electric, factor in some more for a basic amp and a cable, maybe another $100, and then maybe $50-$75 for a strap, tuner, extra strings, picks, and a stand). That's all generally much cheaper than many other instruments of comparable quality, like a good brass instrument, piano, drum set, etc.

* You can play a huge variety of musical styles on guitar: jazz, rock, blues, country, classical, folk, you name it.

* Many guitar instructional books and song books are printed in both standard musical notation and "tab" (short for "tablature"). Learning to read standard notation well can take months or years, whereas most people can learn tab in an afternoon (or less, really), which makes getting started far easier.

* The guitar is such a hugely popular instrument that it's easy to find an enormous variety of instruments in all different price ranges with different features, countless different amps and effects, tons of instructional books, magazines, websites, etc. There are more guitar resources out there than you'll ever need. Walk into just about any music store, and look at just how much space all the guitar gear gets compared to the other instruments that get shoved off into a corner.

* It's a well-known fact that you automatically become cooler if you play guitar :)

Possible downsides:

* Unlike, say, trumpet, you need to have or develop good coordination in both hands.

* There aren't too many lefty guitars out there (though there aren't too many lefty instruments in general), but that's likely not a problem since many lefties just learn to play a right-handed guitar. As I noted above, you need to use both hands anyway, and you actually need more coordination in your left hand (the one that does the fretting on a righty guitar).

[El Gaucho]

At the same time as guitar is widely usefull, thiink also of expression.

I play guitar and love playing guitar but sometimes regret that it is not as expressive an instrument as guitar. A horn is activated by your breath, so it more comes from your voice and is more expressive. AT the same time you can do beautiful chord/melody things on guitar. It just bothers me sometimes that i would never be able to express myself as directly as say Coltrane.

[Muskrat Ramble]

At the same time as guitar is widely usefull, thiink also of expression.


Point taken, but guitar can be enormously expressive and vocal-like if you take string bending into account (something largely and unfortunately lacking in jazz guitar but a huge, integral part of blues and rock, for example). Ditto when you start using a wah and other effects, again often lacking in jazz guitar for some strange, inexplicable reason :(

Plus, as you note, you can play chords on a guitar, as well as contrapuntal music where you play melody, harmony, and bass all at once by yourself via fingerpicking. No way to do those things on many other instruments.

[Phil Kelly]

16 is NOT too old to begin on any instrument ( save possibly classical solo piano and /or strings ..)

The two most important points ( both previously mentioned ) i'd stress:

1. consisitency and efficient use of practice time. ..keep at it ..even thru the boring early stages.

2. Try to get the BEST teacher you can afford to guide you through the early stages.

to these, I'd add one more ..begin at the same time, to acquire some basic knowledge of the workings of jazz theory ..down the line, when you beging to gain fluency, it will greatly aid you in learning to improvise and transcribe .

[bombastic]

I understand what Gaucho is saying. I play the Tenor Sax for the very reason he explains. The instrument goes inside your body. Reeds are the only instruments that are so much a part of your body and breathing. I was a beginner on guitar in high school, and i can strum chords, but I can't stand that simple chord strumming guitar (like in "Animal House", when belushi smashes the guys folk guitar!:laugh: ) I love to hear a great jazz guitarist like Pat Martino, but the guitar was just not my instrument. Coltrane was the guy who inspired me to pick up the tenor-the fantastic sounds that the tenor gets appealed to me far more than any other instrument. Don't play guitar just because it's inexpensive, play the instrument that turns you on.:smokin: All the instruments are great!

[sal]

Jazz Kid -

I struggled with the "am I too old" thing pleanty of times. Aside from about two years experience in grade school, I just started playing my drums seriously again about 2 years ago, and I'm almost 26 years old. In essence, I'm starting again. I thought I was too old to start again, but you'd be surprised at how many musicians you'll run across who were/are late bloomers. A very inspiring conversation with Dr. Lonnie Liston Smith (who started on the organ in his 20's) is what truely convinced me that age has nothing to do with it: like everyone is saying here...its all about how much you want it and how much you are willing to work. You are 16, you have all the time in the world to become an accomplished musician. Find an instrument that fits your personality, find a teacher who can guide you and inspire you, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, have fun with it! If its not fun, you might as well give up....it must always be your passion, it must always occupy a high priority in your life if you are to succeed. Whether you're 16 or 36 and your starting up, it doesn't matter. Your love for your music is what matters. Go for it, and good luck!

[Muskrat Ramble]

it must always occupy a high priority in your life if you are to succeed.

True, but I'd say to a new musician: don't even worry about success or greatness since those goals can be horribly frustrating to a beginner. Just try it and see if you enjoy it. If you do, you'll naturally want to play more, which will help you get better at it, which in turn lets you enjoy it even more :) Ultimately, it's about enjoyment, not trying to excel, imo.

And if you don't enjoy it, you'll at least know you tried something cool that many people never do. Better than living the rest of your life asking, "What if...?"

[solarjazzband]

Originally posted by El Gaucho
At the same time as guitar is widely usefull, thiink also of expression.

I play guitar and love playing guitar but sometimes regret that it is not as expressive an instrument as guitar. A horn is activated by your breath, so it more comes from your voice and is more expressive. AT the same time you can do beautiful chord/melody things on guitar. It just bothers me sometimes that i would never be able to express myself as directly as say Coltrane.

I JUST wanted to post a reply with (almost) the exact words as you did! So I agree totally with it.

It frustrates me, sometimes I'm asking; why am I still playing guitar? My favorite musicians ever are NOT guitarists! I wish I could play one note, so strong, like Miles or Wayne Shorter. But that's impossible, the sound fades away after a few seconds, and it all depends on your picking hand to give it that expression. With wind instruments, it depends how well you put wind into it.

But... of course there are heavy expressions on guitar, but than it is only a matter of playing fast, repeating technical 'licks', maybe putting distortion on it or some other cool effect. But you can't reach that with one note.

But why I am still playing guitar is because I think: well, than let me be the first one to reach the point of being able to give such an expression with a few notes on guitar! :D so that's a strive, but I'm not sure I will reach that.


(PS What is this post doing around here in this thread!? It deserves a new thread, it has nothing to with the original question! :laugh: )

[subcitizen]

I've asked myself the same question..i wish that i could have the facility for stuff that people do on sax and trumpet on guitar. I've acctually been looking into getting a sustain pedal to try to provide for the ability to hold long notes and such. Sure, you can add little effects like that to the guitar to enhance the sound..but i think that one of the problems with that is that the sound is coming from a box...not from you. Which is why i guess it's important to practice and practice and develop the tone in your fingers, and find not just sounds that are particular to you but techniques that are particular to your playing, a la Wes Montgomery and his octaves.

-andrew

[Muskrat Ramble]

But that's impossible, the sound fades away after a few seconds, and it all depends on your picking hand to give it that expression.

I'm really quite suprised at what a few of you guitarists are saying here, but I think it stems from the fact that you guys play jazz guitar--at least Solar does.

You can easily create massive sustain on a guitar with an overdrive or distortion pedal, not often used in jazz, but integral to other styles. You can really make the guitar sing (or squeal) that way. (And then there's controlled feedback, which takes to yet another level.)

You can easily create extremely nuanced, personal playing by bending notes (and adding vibrato) to give it your own unique emotional stamp. You're not at all limited to the notes provided by the fretboard; microtones are your friends. Bending isn't often done in traditional jazz guitar playing (a true waste of opportunity), but is essential to other styles, like rock, blues, and country. Just because it's not coming from your breath doesn't mean it's not expressive! Your hands are just as much a part of you, after all, and every (good) player puts his or her own unique feel into the playing, so that it hardly even matters what guitar they play.

but i think that one of the problems with that is that the sound is coming from a box...not from you

No, no, no! :) Your hands play a huge role in your tone and personal sound. Every player will sound different using the same gear.

Which is why i guess it's important to practice and practice and develop the tone in your fingers,

Precisely. But also make sure that if you play guitar, you at least try out the full range of things it's capable of. If you have an archtop with heavy-gauge strings, try playing a standard solid body with 9's or 10's and bend away! If you don't have a distortion or overdrive pedal, borrow one from a friend. Try a wah for some personalized and truly vocal- or horn-like sounds. Heck, one major wah is actually endorsed by a trumpeter and not a guitarist because of the horn-like tones :)

[subcitizen]

Muskrat,

You make some interesting points. First of all, with the subject of bending...i think that in the right context and done tastefully, bending can be pulled off succesfully in jazz guitar. However i think that if you're bending left and right you're going to sound more like a rock or blues player and less like a jazz player....that is of course, unless the bending suits your style or that's what you're going for.

I've acctually played rock guitar longer than i've played jazz guitar, so i know all about distortion and overdrive and such. However i've never thought about playing jazz tunes on the rock set up. I'll be sure to try that next time i get the chance.

-andrew

[Muskrat Ramble]

I've acctually played rock guitar longer than i've played jazz guitar, so i know all about distortion and overdrive and such. However i've never thought about playing jazz tunes on the rock set up. I'll be sure to try that next time i get the chance.

I know some jazzers like Scofield use effects, so it's not unknown. It seems like a lot of jazz guitarists--and I'm talking in general, not you guys in particular since I have no idea how you play!--are too tied to the past and unwilling to experiment the way so many great jazz artists have. Why do so many jazz guitarists still seemed tied to a particular sound and playing style (i.e., one from the time of Charlie Christian)? Jazz is about innovation, and the guitar offers wonderful opportunities that seem to go untapped by many players--whatever their chosen genre. There's no law that says a jazz guitarist needs to play an archtop with heavy strings, a clean tone with reduced highs, etc. Go for broke! :)

One thing I've found is that using different effects, pickup selections, amp settings, etc. all encourage greater creativity. The different sounds help me come up with ideas that I might not otherwise have, suggesting different moods, styles, etc. I'd hate to be tied to just one sound or type of guitar.

[solarjazzband]

Yeah and that's exactly why I love guitar! There´s no other instrument where you can add so many effects to. You can think of electronic effects (wah wah´s, harmonizers etc.), but I also think of pulling up and pushing off, bending, slides, flargeolettes (how to spell...), and many many more things. You can´t do those things on piano, sax or whatever.

But still, these are only technical things, if you have a personal `sound` on guitar, than it´s mostly based on (electronic) effects. And of course the style of playing, but the sound depends on amps, and everything. On wind instruments you don´t have those effects, so it depends only on your breathing.

So I would suggest to practise a lot without any electronic thing, just you and your guitar. I´ve done that a lot this year, and I swear you, it really really developped my sound, I developped a better picking technique, I improved my `sound´, MY REAL sound, not my electronic sound.

Than, if you play with this electonic stuff, your sound will be MORE better, because those effects also improve your sound (if not used too much). So also experiment with electonic effects, but only use them for performances (or if you feel like playing along with aebersold or somethin´).

[Muskrat Ramble]

So I would suggest to practise a lot without any electronic thing

Agreed. Heavy distortion, reverb, etc. can all partially mask flaws in your intonation that you'll hear (and correct) easier with a clean sound. Then again, effects can also impact how you need to handle picking, timing, chord voicings, etc., so it's equally important to practice with the effects you want to use for playing songs or performing. Just like if you want to play a song on an acoustic 12 string, you shouldn't spend all day practicing the tune only a 6-string electric.

[The Analog Kid]

I'm taking up the drums. Never played before. I'm 37.

The Analog Kid

[PiousBionicus]

Originally posted by El Gaucho
if u decide to pursue music as your career and life search, then you need to be at your instrument everyday for at least like 2/3 hours.

That is not necessarily true, I think experience is a lot more important than practicing every day. People who say "I practice 4 or 5 hours each day, and I have grade 8 on my instrument."-- well done you! But they can't always play very well with other people.

I have been playing drums for 7 years, all of which I have been in various bands with lots of different people, and I have definitely learned a lot more from that than I did from lessons. You learn techniques in lessons, but what point are these techniques if you can't apply them to any music?

People who say you have to practice so many hours each day are not always right. For classical music you need a lot of practice, but for jazz the best way is playing with other musicians because then you get the experience and develop your own techniques. Certainly for me, this way is better, but obviously everyone is different. You may well find that practicing for ages every day works for you, but get yourself in a band as soon as possible.

[solarjazzband]

PiousBionicus, you're absolutaly right! Also, many people say that "you're NOT born with it, anyone can improvise". Of course that's true, but I think it´s indeed about experience, maybe somebody is in the ideal situation (parents listen to good music or whatever).

For example: Why is your friend better than you, while you practise as much as him! The answer may be that he practise better stuff, buy better books, play with his uncle that is professional etc.

But of course, to stimulate you must always say that everyone can become good! And it is!

[lukrion]

Your getting some great advice from everyone here.

Let me just say that I have a few drum students that are between the ages of 30-60, that have been playing between 6 months and a year. While they are all progressing at different speeds, each one seems to be having a ball, and the "lessons" are sinking in. I have had one guy since Christmas. He only comes in about twice a month and he is away in Europe for business a lot, but he is grasping ideas that Elvin Jones uses in playing, and can perform the techniques.

They all have their own interests but even though none of these guys have 10 hours a day to practice, they are moving along at a steady pace. I'm sure a lot of this is due to the fact that they all listen to music when they are not playing and they have listened to music in the past.

And when I do get students between the ages of 16 and 25, I do let them know that they DO have all the time in the world.

Your biggest obstacle will be using your practice time wisely. Once you get into a routine and know what skill objectives you have to work on you will progress faster. A good teacher will help you with that.

Have fun with it.

[markvi]

play jazzkid play!!!!