How do you write out this?

[thekid]

I want to write out a chord with only two notes. How?

Like this...an F and a E.

Those two notes

Is there any way to write it out as a chord?

[EdByrne]

I want to write out a chord with only two notes. How?

Like this...an F and a E.

Those two notes

Is there any way to write it out as a chord?
I know of no other reasonable way of notating a diad than by writing the actual pitch classes into the lead sheet (one on top of the other).

[Phat Boi]

I've seen sheet music for rock and other styles of popular music and they have a chord symbol for powerchords. D5 would be a D powerchord. You will NEVER find this in jazz. Id just notate it.

[thekid]

That's what I thought.
Thanks

[Bill Robinson]

I've seen symbols such as "D5" and to me, this seems an acceptable way to notate a fifth with no third. It doesn't imply a "power chord"; it just states the chord as it is, with no 3rd. A related chord would be C susD, used by Frank Zappa in "The Idiot Bastard Son". that chord is C-G-C-D-G. Is Zappa rock or jazz? The way he uses these sus chords is not unlike a "power chord", but that's a non-theoretical context. Yeah, "D5"---that means no third, 'cause the fifth is usually not mentioned in the chord symbol; it's assumed unless it's altered, in which case it is called diminished or b5 (if the fifth is altered) or #11 (which assumes that an unaltered fifth is also present in the chord. So if you do mention the fifth, as in "D5", to me that automatically lets you know that there is no 3rd.

[LDGuy]

Depends on the context. If you can notate it, notatie, but it could be writtern as something like Fmaj7(omit3,5). But a diad like that could be anything - it could be C#maj(#9)(omit1,5). Looks pretty damn ugly if you ask me!

[Bill Robinson]

I agree. It depends on how the dyad is being used, and if there's a root function implied. In the case of a fifth such as D5, it's obvious. The original dyad, described as "an F and an E"...well, if you call it F you have to say F maj 7, no 3rd, no 5th (and cut the pickles while you're at it). ••• Of course, there's another possibility: what if these two notes are being used in a non-harmonic, rhythmically-driven, essentially melodic form of music, such as Death Metal? The tri-tone is often put to such use... ••• and guys, I believe it's "dyad", not "diad" (ask any mathematician or atonal composer).

[dodz]

I believe it's "dyad", not "diad" (ask any mathematician or atonal composer).


I wonder why that is.... :shrug:


what calls for the variation? (ie. it's not "tryad")


BTW, dictionary.com agrees with you.

[Sal Sprezzatura]

It depends on how the dyad is being used, and if there's a root function implied. In the case of a fifth such as D5, it's obvious. The original dyad, described as "an F and an E"...well, if you call it F you have to say F maj 7, no 3rd, no 5th (and cut the pickles while you're at it).

I don't have a clue what this means, but I feel ten IQ points better off just reading it and knowing I post on the same board. Um .... the pickles bit I get (I hope).

[Phil Kelly]

just wondering ..

why are we jumping through all these semantic hoops to call a two note pitch set anything other than an "interval" ?

which, the lastime I looked, it was ...

:confused2 :confused2 :confused2 :confused2 :confused2 :confused2 :confused2 :confused2

[Bill Robinson]

••• It sounded to me like the guy wanted to use the two notes as a "chord", or notate them as you would a chord; but a chord must have three notes. However, I can think of some weird 3-note clusters that you would be hard-pressed to find a chord name for. I would be more inclined to call E-F-F# a cluster rather than a chord (or should that be E-F-Gb?); of course, what's the tonal context...and that would be pushing it. I was wrong in saying that an atonal composer would know what a "dyad" is. I've seen trichords, nonachords, tetrachords, etc. referred to, but these have been abstracted from their specific note identities into "pitch class intervals", which places all importance on their identities as interval-forms. So maybe you're right, Phil; the interval is of prime importance after all in defining a musical entity. "Interval" refers to the distance in pitch between two tones; a dyad, on the other hand, is "two individuals or units regarded as a pair", such as a mother-daughter dyad. The interval of a fifth, for instance, could be any fifth between any two notes; a dyad, on the other hand, could be regarded as an "entity" which is manipulated as a unit, which you could move around in the MIDI editor of a composition program such as Logic. But that would amount to the same thing, same distance. I'm not sure if "dyad" is even a musical term, maybe just a mathematics term and the above-mentioned definition. Perhaps we have invented a new musical term; but I must give credit to Ed Byrne, who first used it, albeit misspelled. What the HELL are those guys talking about? Peace, BR

[EdByrne]

••• It sounded to me like the guy wanted to use the two notes as a "chord", or notate them as you would a chord; but a chord must have three notes. However, I can think of some weird 3-note clusters that you would be hard-pressed to find a chord name for. I would be more inclined to call E-F-F# a cluster rather than a chord (or should that be E-F-Gb?); of course, what's the tonal context...and that would be pushing it. I was wrong in saying that an atonal composer would know what a "dyad" is. I've seen trichords, nonachords, tetrachords, etc. referred to, but these have been abstracted from their specific note identities into "pitch class intervals", which places all importance on their identities as interval-forms. So maybe you're right, Phil; the interval is of prime importance after all in defining a musical entity. "Interval" refers to the distance in pitch between two tones; a dyad, on the other hand, is "two individuals or units regarded as a pair", such as a mother-daughter dyad. The interval of a fifth, for instance, could be any fifth between any two notes; a dyad, on the other hand, could be regarded as an "entity" which is manipulated as a unit, which you could move around in the MIDI editor of a composition program such as Logic. But that would amount to the same thing, same distance. I'm not sure if "dyad" is even a musical term, maybe just a mathematics term and the above-mentioned definition. Perhaps we have invented a new musical term; but I must give credit to Ed Byrne, who first used it, albeit misspelled. What the HELL are those guys talking about? Peace, BR

BR:

Thanks for the spelling correction. Recent music theorists have added the term dyad to musical discourse to describe a 2-note harmony (not chord, as you point out, but harmony nonetheless) or melodic motivic building block--especially associated with modern music, such as Ravel's and Debussy's-on forward.

Thus, the current terminology, I believe, is as folloows, especially when discussing Pitch Class Set Theory and other mathematical systems employed by modern composers:

Prime
Dyad
Trichord
Tetrachord
Pentachord
Hexachord
Heptachord
Octachord,
Nonachord
Dectachord

I still know no better way to notate a dyad harmony other than by writing the pitch classes out, one upon the other. I'm not convinced by the other methods cited above.

It is true that specific chordal voicings, especially complex ones, are often comprised of various combinations of different intervals.

The E, F, F#, as you state, is a cluster voicing, and it would need to be written out, just as the dyad is.

[bossman]

Wouldn't it depend on the distance between and the order? E F F# can feasibly Fmaj7b9(omit 3,5) if you don't care about how it is voiced. If you want 3 continuous semitones then it would have to be written out I think.

I think Ed is right about the best way to notate it, but in the end it doesn't matter when the pianist/guitarist/whatever understands what it is.

[EdByrne]

Wouldn't it depend on the distance between and the order? E F F# can feasibly Fmaj7b9(omit 3,5) if you don't care about how it is voiced. If you want 3 continuous semitones then it would have to be written out I think.

I think Ed is right about the best way to notate it, but in the end it doesn't matter when the pianist/guitarist/whatever understands what it is.
bossman:

Regarding E,F,F#, when I want a cluster, I write in the notes. However, leaving aside the tediousness of the omit and no chord notations, I think it a bit fussy and far-fetched perhaps to name a chord F MA7-9, and then instruct the reader to omit two of its three fundamental triadic chord tones, however logical it could be otherwise argued to be. I think that harmonic dyads and secundal trichords as cited above are just among those difficult details that we all have to deal with at times in life. Therefore, I always ask myself several times before I notate these kinds of things, "Do I really need this shit?" Usually I don't!

In notation I always seek to put in Just the facts, Mam, and I strive at all cost to avoid time-waisting questions regarding notation. In this sense it is always best to notate to the professional performer's reading experience.

Ed

[LDGuy]

Whats the difference between a: Monad and Prime; Triad and Trichord; and Tetrad and Tetrachord? It seems there is no parallel term for a two note chord (dyad).

Does a triad infer some kind of tonality, whereas a trichord is just any combination of three notes? If so, is tonality integral to a Tetrad, and thus a Dyad and most weirdly, a Monad?