Describe the evolution of your aesthetic as a musician

[KolumBUZZ]

I started out very much wanting to play hard-bop and standards. Cedar Walton was my hero and I wanted to do everything that he was doing....he was very bluesy, played hard, and i dug his tunes. I also worshipped the Jazz Messengers...So then I tried to get down with this, but found that playing straight-up blues, and stride, was more fun than playing hard bop.

Then I was drawn to the cosmic jazz of John Coltrane, Pharoah Sanders, and Alice Coltrane. I thought the most modern and relevant way to play was like McCoy and Alice, and pursued this for some time. I wrote a bunch of things in this vein, complete with pseudo-spiritual titles like "Dawn of Hope", "Introflection", and "The Presence." I wouldn't say I've ever been terribly spiritual, but part of me can definitely relate to the basic idea of uplifting people's consciousness through music.

Consistent with the kind of aesthetic I derived from Trane and Co I adhered to an acoustic purism, going to the extent even of romanticizing ethnic instruments like African djembe drums, the Oud, steel pans, and so on. I admired the tradition of the folk-improviser, and even conceived of myself in this light on some level...I certainly interpeted the music of Trane and others as having commonality with traditional improvised music.

Now, I find, ironically, in going on 30 that this outlook and aesthetic is too serious and sober for me to sustain as an absolute. It's been a huge influence, but the more I am involved with music the more I am conscious of how different can serve different emotional needs that I have, both in listening and in PLAYING. So I find that there is a significant part of me that can really relate to funk and rock n'roll, and find fulfillment in playing music that involves these elements. I also appreciate all the youthfulness and vitality this music represents, and feel it is much more "relevant" than straight-ahead jazz....as such it's becoming more and more part of my aesthetic identity.

I am also no longer an acoustic purist. Not by a mile. I love vintage keyboards like Rhodes and Wurly's, but I don't even stop there. I'm crazy about the Nord Lead's sounds and I am even finding there's a certain context for lush synth sounds and sound effects in my music. Also, it could end up being an artistic dead end but I've gotten way into recording pieces part-by-part. I'll record a bass-and-drum part or a bass-and-keyboard part and then add parts on top of it. I do that by sections and then hopefully, if I've thought hard enough about how to transition and develop things well, it sounds coherent.

The McCoy Tyner influence and the spiritual/ethnic thing is still huge on me though, it's just being applied to a more "futuristic", technology-oriented context....I look at my aesthetic imperative as being basically that I am trying to negotiate the simplicity and timeless power of the ancient, with the excitement and increasing complexity of the future. I know that sounds terribly pretentious, but for me it's just really important to feel that I am doing something that has meaning for the time I live in. I feel like we live in kind of a faceless age and so now is just a perfect time to both speculate about the distant future and attempt to relate back to the ancient psyche.

....and in a way, I'm coming back full circle because when I was young and naive, I used to really idolize music that struck me as visionary in a futuristic way. I love the feeling of creating music that is meant to foreshadow or forecast the future on some level.....there is just so much vitality in that, especially when people are willing to let you take them on a journey of sorts into the future. So Herbie's last couple of electro-jazz records have been very meaningful to me, in this respect....as has the music of Andy Milne and Steve Coleman.

- Please share the evolution of your aesthetic with music. I think this could be a valuable exchange of perspectives...I'm willing to bet I'm not the only person who's gotten further and further away from orthodoxy, for example.

[hammond x]

...a couple of years playing straight blues on piano, then herbie hancock, digging jimmy smith/john patton licks on the organ, a year out struggling with the saxophone, back to the organ again, finding myself in a spiritual situation for one year, discovering the world of digital recording techniques, modern jazz influenced music, getting back to my jazz/blues organ rootdown, spacejazz, 70's jazz freedom ...where am i now, where will it take me, i don't know ...but i'm always willing to take that risk.

[Jakeweiser]

Evolution as a musician, what a topic, this looks interesting.

So here's me. I was born in a family where music was very important. Parents made me, and my brother and sister take piano lessons early on. I found it difficult and frustrating because my brother's skills on the keys were progressing very quickly (He's currently at North Texas studdying for his masters) and I was not really enjoying that sort of competition. I joined the local highschool band in search of a hobby for my young self, took flute not knowing it was so damn hard, and gave that up.

I recieved my 1st guitar at the age of 12 with inspiration from various artists, not really having a particular style or goal. I grew away from the guitar, back to it, away as most young men do finding all sorts of distractions. I started to feel comfortable with it, I then turned to the world of Grudge, Pump, Alt Rock and Metal as it appeared I had a talent for music, I was playing Trombone in a Jazz Band as well as a Concert band and was working on my guitar skills to get into the highschool band as Guitar chair. I began private lessons seriously and was developing into a decent enough highschool player, made the band for 2 years as lead guitar still a big fan of all sorts of music but was more of a rocker then anything.

In my senior year I was having trouble finding music that challenged or excited me at this point. Iwas by far at my school the best player, Alt Rock, Nirvana, Perl Jamm and bands like that were very popular in my school at the time, I found the music to be fun, but unchallenging. I was learning entire albums in 30 minutes at a time and so I started to check out the swing charts we did in band, and found a respect for them. I was given Miles Davis Kind of Blue and went from there

After Highschool I went to University to study Music. I was exposed to better players, better music and it was overwhelming, without any sort of practice discipline and the world of University I flunked out, I didn't stand a chance. I took two years off, worked and traveled and rekindled my love of music and now most certainly Jazz was it for me. I didn't want anything to do with music that wasn't Jazz and that didn't swing and at that point my evolution grew.

I went back to school and competeled my degree. My evolution was really cool there as when i joined I had every intention of coming out of there very much in the school of Wes Montgomery/Jim Hall guys who some would call "straight ahead" and while no Jim isn't straight ahead, he uses a natural sound, he swings he runs changes etc. I grew like that for 2 years and fuond it great for getting concepts down but then was drawn away by players like Sco, Methany and most importantly Abercrombie

While I do love straight ahead guys on all instruments it's wild open playing and modal stuff that really gets me going now. I love playing in a trio with bass and drums over any other ensemble, it feels so liberating and free. Anyway I guess that's enough from me.

[KolumBUZZ]

that's cool. thanks for sharing.

[clifton]

This is a cool idea for a thread. When I was sixteen, I heard Charlie Parker and I flipped. Bird was the greatest thing I had ever heard. I decided I wanted to play the saxophone, but I realized that if jazz is about anything, it's about having your own sound, so I decided to play tenor, because I didn't want to imitate Bird, or anyone else, for that matter. Anyway, I played sax as a hobby, not getting too deep, but eventually, I realized that I loved this music so much that I wanted to really focus on it. By this time, the late 1970's, I was still a bebop nut but I was also digging the entire spectrum of jazz, plus funk and avant-rock bands like King Crimson. So here I was, thirteen years later, and I started taking lessons again, got very serious about it, and wound up in a rock 'n' roll band that also did Doors and Hendrix covers where I would stretch out and get very jazzy. My own band was around in 1982-83 and we didn't work a lot, but we had big fun. It was a trio with me, electric bass and drums, and we played the whole thing. Monk, Coltrane, some originals, some Shorter tunes, some funky things. My first love was bebop, and it remains bebop, but the act of playing music is so transporting. I love it all and we played it all. I agree with Kolumbuzz that music should reflect the times we're in, but that doesn't necessarily mean using electronica, drum machines, or hip hop beats. My view of this is more abstract. Anybody who is awake and aware and on the planet can choose to be influenced by everything around you. That's inevitable unless you actively resist it. I didn't resist it. The honest expression of self through music will inevitably reflect the times. I haven't been able to play for a long time because of a serious disability, but I listen. I make an attempt to listen to everything from Radiohead to David S. Ware. And I still love Bird.

[jazzypaul]

My evolution has been a wacky one...

I started out when I was 12, learning orchestral percussion and taking lessons. I was the fourth chair in band, and I was constantly getting shit on for having weak chops. So, I went home and I practiced my chops. I didn't play along with records, I practiced double and triple stroke rolls, getting them as smooth and as fast as possible. Then I moved throughout all of the 26 rudiments and the 26 swedish rudiments as well. After all of this hard work, when it came time for high school, they wanted to put me on marching band playing cymbals. So, I simply said forget this and smoked lots of weed.

About a year later, the church that I was at forced me to play drums in the church choir. My parents bought me a set to practice on, and I did. But, church music was never my calling, even when later on, I would find myself getting more spiritual in my life.

I treated music haphazardly for a while, until two things happened: (1) I HEARD cream. I had heard them before, but for the first time, I realized how special Ginger Baker was. Also, a buddy wanted to start jamming. He had friends that played all the time, and we all played together. I figured, if I was gonna be playing with people, I should be taking lessons, so that they'd want to play with me. So, I started taking lessons with two different guys. One guy that had me working on funk, and one guy that had me working on four way independence. It was A LOT of work (two hours of practice a day at this point), but it was starting to pay off.

Now, all of this time, I was listening to more and more jazz, and wanting to play that, but I just couldn't get it together. I could do the rhythms, but it didn't sound like anything. So, I enrolled in jazz combos at school, and immediately realized that I was a total piece of shit as a drummer. More lessons, more listening. Still sounded like shit. More lessons, more listening, still shit. Then I discovered the beauty of the jam session. Yeah, I still sounded like crap, but now I had dudes that could play telling me why I sucked, and what they wanted to hear from me. I was obsessed, not going out, losing my girlfriend at the time in the process because I was practicing so much.

All of this time, I was playing in some rock bands here and there. A couple got some gigs, a few more didn't. I played in a transvestite bar with a group of guys that I didn't know were homosexual. I got fired from that gig for asking about the fags in dresses (I was 19 at the time, I'm allowed comments like that at 19...). I got fired from a blues band for continually messing with the guitarist because he was a dick. Then, I started picking up some jazz work here and there. When I actually started playing jazz gigs, my ears changed a lot. I went from listening to ensembles that I really dug to drummers that I really dug. I listened not only to what they were playing, but also how they were playing WITH the horns and pianos. This is when I started getting heavily into both Billy Higgins and Elvin Jones, the two drummers that would prove to be my two biggest influences.

At first, I was very much the hardbop traditionalist. I liked the sound of the rhodes and the B-3, but it ended there. As I started listening more and more, however, my conception kept widening and widening, and I started drooling over avant garde players like Cecil Taylor, David S. Ware, David Murray and Anthony Braxton, and especially Ken Vandermark. At the moment, while I love swinging, I am finding myself really trying to build some sort of a bridge between funk and free jazz with my organ trio, The Three Blind Mice.

Okay, I've been typing entirely too much.

[clifton]

jazzypaul: you mentioned Vandermark, who is deserving of his own thread. My main question: did Wilbur Campbell influence your playing? He was the hard bop master in Chicago,, IMHO. Also I was wondering if you got a chance to hear Philip Wilson and if his playing had any effect on you.

[jazzypaul]

Clifton --

Interesting questions. Now for some answers...

1) Strangely enough, The Vandermark 5 was my first jazz show...completely on accident. I went to the late show at the Metro one night in 1995 (when you could still see bizarre as shit bands there) to catch the vulva club, who were kind of a NOW sponsored version of They Might Be Giants, and a band who my band at the time, The Ultimate Fiasco, had opened for quite a few times. Well, anyway, who was opening up for them that night? Sure enough, The Vandermark 5, going completely hog wild, and scaring the hell out of damn near everyone there. I was totally freaked out, but I was also really captivated. That show started my love affair with Vandermark. I think I shall start a Vandermark thread...

2) Wilbur Campbell: I'd heard him, and I have plenty of albums with him playing, but I was never really influenced by him. For me, Wilbur falls into the same category as many many drummers around here, chiefly among them, Robert Shy: amazing drummers that I don't want to sound like. Around Chicago, the guys that really lit a fuse under me have been Phil Gratteau, Jeff Stitely, Kahil El'Zabar, Hamid Drake, Robert Barry and the son of legendary violinist Johnny Frigo, Rick Frigo, who has been my teacher and mentor for as long as I can remember. I know I'd heard Philip Wilson, but I don't remember him leaving a really large impression on me.

The drummer to watch for coming out of Chicago will be Chad Taylor. He's been playing with Fred Anderson as of late, and this dude is a monster. He doesn't bring the power of Hamid, but he's a heavy thinker, and that shows in his playing. He's kind of like a chess player in that regard.

[clifton]

jazzypaul: thanks. I was wondering partly because I'm interested in questions of musical influence. In my playing days, I let myself be influenced by my entire environment, and sooner or later, I decided that whatever sound came out of the horn, well, that was me. Ironically, when I was studying with Alan Braufman, he commented that I sounded a little like Stan Getz. Ironic because as much as I love Stan Getz, I never wanted to sound like him.

[bombastic]

Cliff-Did you listen to alot of Getz? Interesting Band combination-electric bass-no piano?

[clifton]

bombastic: I listened to a fair amount of Getz, but not as much as Bird or Ornette or Dexter Gordon. I did at one point make a conscious effort to sound like Dexter, and abandoned that because I was bending too many notes and as a result developed a muddy attack. Nothing like musician feedback at a jam session to get you to focus and thus accelerate your development.

[bombastic]

Cliff-When you say "bending", do you mean "vibrato"?

[jazzypaul]

Clifton,

It's interesting that you note the idea of taking in everything around you. At some point, I made a conscious decision to try to sound like Picasso's early work. A little exaggerated, and definitely very angular. I'm still not hearing on the kit what I hear in my head, but it's getting there.

[clifton]

jazzypaul: if you're true to yourself, you'll be influenced by the world, because, like it or not, you already are. When you digest those influences, filtering them through your own persona, your intellect, your feelings, your soul, then you're playing jazz. I remember when my oldest son was an infant, and I'd be improvising, his gurgling might pop into my head unbidden, and work its way into my improvised line, albeit in vastly transmuted form. bombastic: "bending" a note has nothing to do with vibrato. It's a semitone inflection. Listen to Pres or Dexter Gordon or Johnny Hodges carefully; you should hear it.

[aquabenz]

My evolution as a musician:

1. Took piano lessons at age 11 - didn't do well and gave up. Played video games and read Stephen King novels. Listened to U2 and Phil Collins-era Genesis
2. Forward to age 14 - got into grunge music and bought a cheap bass guitar so I could be like the guy in Nirvana.
3. Age 14-16 - recorded tons of idiotic demos with my band (which consisted of two other inexperienced guitarists and myself)
4. Age 16 - Ceased taking bass lessons. Joined my first band, played lots of covers. Took introductory music theory in high school.
5. Age 17 - Got into progressive rock and classic rock. Began learning Beatles parts and vocal harmonies. Stopped listening to newer music because it sucked. Continued studying music theory in high school. Joined marching band to help college application, hated it.
6. Age 18 - Went to college to study history and met my girlfriend. Still felt very serious about music. Started playing six-string guitar. Listened to more progressive rock. My freshman roommate was a big Phish fan and got me into musicians like Chick Corea and Anthony Braxton.
7. Age 19-20 - Didn't spend much time with music and got heavily into my schoolwork (in retrospect, a horrible decision). Started listening to more jazz fusion albums.
8. Age 21 - Got back into jazz music more heavily. Decided that fusion was too hard for someone like me to comprehend. Decided to go back further in time to hard bop. Bought a copy of "Kind of Blue" because someone told me it was amazing. Didn't find it all too interesting at first. Went out and got Miles Smiles and fell deeply in love. Became consumed by jazz music, although I still couldn't play any of it. Then, I was called back into a new band. Played a lot of gigs and lousy music.
9. Age 22 - Bought more jazz albums. Became obsessed with Dave Holland and John Abercrombie. Failed out of college due to personal problems and extreme lack of interest. Broke up the band because the singer was a flake and decided to rethink my approach to music. Hate my style as a rock musician. Wished that I grew up listening and playing jazz music but am focussing primarily on the future. Still can't play "Teen Town" on bass, but getting there.