Need assistance/feedback with this composition

[Franzman]

Hi

So here's the situation. I had a mad rush of inspiration yesterday after listening through Kind of Blue so I decided to compose something similar. It turned out be a jazz waltz, closely resembling All Blues. But here's the problem, I'm REALLY lousy at making melodies. And I mean, extremely lousy.
The waltz contains two chords really, a variation of Cm7 and Cmaj7 I think. I can't really tell.

Will you, the more experienced and more wise, listen through it and comment/give advise/tips on how I should develope a nice melody.

Waltz to Orleans (http://h1.ripway.com/Franzman/WaltztoOrleans.mp3)

Oh and while I'm at it. Check these tunes out too. They should prove that I suck at making melodies. ;)

C-Man Swing (http://h1.ripway.com/Franzman/C-ManSwing.mp3) (this one is incomplete, just a melodyline)
Stonecold (http://h1.ripway.com/Franzman/Stonecold.mp3)

[EdByrne]

Hi

So here's the situation. I had a mad rush of inspiration yesterday after listening through Kind of Blue so I decided to compose something similar. It turned out be a jazz waltz, closely resembling All Blues. But here's the problem, I'm REALLY lousy at making melodies. And I mean, extremely lousy.
The waltz contains two chords really, a variation of Cm7 and Cmaj7 I think. I can't really tell.

Will you, the more experienced and more wise, listen through it and comment/give advise/tips on how I should develope a nice melody.

Waltz to Orleans (http://h1.ripway.com/Franzman/WaltztoOrleans.mp3)

Oh and while I'm at it. Check these tunes out too. They should prove that I suck at making melodies. ;)

C-Man Swing (http://h1.ripway.com/Franzman/C-ManSwing.mp3) (this one is incomplete, just a melodyline)
Stonecold (http://h1.ripway.com/Franzman/Stonecold.mp3)

Franzman:

I suggest that you start by analyzing tunes that you like. Figure out what you like in them, and why. Then emulate them as exercises. For example, you mention "All Blues," which is a form of 12-bar blues. Create a head to it on your trombone by recording yourself improvising at length on it. Record that, and then transcribe and re-assemble the motives you like the best; fix them up. Create a "frozen improvisation"--just a 1-chorus head.

You could experiment also with re-harmonizing the piece just a bit with tritone subs, secondary 2 5s, blues chords, etc.

Competant composition begins with analysis of what has been done before.

There are previous threads in this forum that have many great suggestions on this topic.

Also: Go to http://www.freejazzinstitute.org, where there are many transcriptions and compositions that are analysed and explained: Click on either "Transcriptions" or "Theory and Analysis." Some of the work of Phil, Jake, and mine is represented there.

Good luck in your quest.

Best,
Ed

[Phil Kelly]

Hi Franz:

After listening through your sample, it seems to me more as an accompaniment to a melody than a melody per se. Basically, it's a vamp ...

Eds idea of improvising over the vamp you've created is one approach. Another approach is to get a real book and analyse what components go into creating a good jazz melody: motifs, overall arc, distinctive rhythmic features ,etc.

Good Luck!

PK

[Franzman]

Hi Franz:

After listening through your sample, it seems to me more as an accompaniment to a melody than a melody per se. Basically, it's a vamp ...

Eds idea of improvising over the vamp you've created is one approach. Another approach is to get a real book and analyse what components go into creating a good jazz melody: motifs, overall arc, distinctive rhythmic features ,etc.

Good Luck!

PK

That's precisely what it is, there's no melody yet. That's why I posted here, to get tips and ideas on how to build a melody on that accompaniment. :P

I do have a book on jazz composing but it's a lot of theory that's not quite second nature yet. I thought i'd ask you guys personally to get tips.

[EdByrne]

Composing

It seems that artists differ with regard to how they deal with their creative process. Ernest Hemingway, one of my favorite novelists, shocked me in A Moveable Feast when he stated that when he really got to the height of inspiration, he abruptly stopped, so that he'd have a good place to start the next day. If I did this, the inspiration might very well be lost forever, so I take it and go with it as it comes—from any direction.

Of course the melody is of the utmost importance in composition, but any idea that seems strong enough to prompt me to compose will do as a starting point. You can start anywhere with anything: It might be a melodic fragment, a rhythmic groove or pattern, a set of chordal movements, a bass line, chord sequence, melodic fragment, or a rhythm—whatever.

I would have lost a lot of compositions if I had been choosey with having to have the melody come first, but whatever process works for each individual is cool, I guess. Before I'm though, however, I'm going to go over everything to ensure that each element is strong in its own right, especially the melody.

Get used to thinking compositionally away from a keyboard, to hearing music in your head first, then sketching out what you found internally before using a keyboard to develop things. If you start with the keyboard, you'll tend to focus on the harmonic tree without being aware of the rest of the musical forest.

Finally, keep in mind that music basically is linear; it goes sideways in time, and consequent harmony can be suggested or generated by a confluence of lines. If you start thinking at a keyboard, you'll be dealing with the vertical (harmonic) aspect primarily, which usually tends to impede the flow of the music if it is used too early in the process.

You could even carry a small recording device with you in the car, then if a germ of an idea presents itself, hum or sing it for transcription and development later. (Phil's advice, last 3 paragraphs.)

Provided I begin by composing the melody first, which I do most of the time, I then experiment with which harmonic style to adopt for its accompaniment. It might be blues chords, or straight ahead progressions, perhaps with extended harmony or pedal points.

But one of my favorite styles is to approach the melody notes as unresolved melodic tensions, such as 9ths, 11ths, and 13ths over extended chords. I sometimes write non-functional chord successions underneath the melody—even atonal. It doesn't have to be dissonant and expressionist in style to be atonal—just have no primary key center.

I also like to set up tension and release into the exposition, such as with rhythmic hits. I used to use a lot of changes of feel, but I've tired of such overused and distracting devices (unless they are somehow related). Latin-swing is particularly tired in my view. My primary goal is to establish a strong and perhaps unusual mood that will make me feel like playing the piece. I've grown bored with the usual moods.

This is what works for me, but artists differ in their approaches.

Since for me composition is mostly aimed at my own playing (I write compositions which are good moods and vehicles for my own performance style), I sometimes will compose the entire accompaniment before writing the theme—if that's how it seems to be leading me. I view this process as look what happened to me, rather than look what I did. (My best compositions often write themselves (have a mind of their own). Therefore if I'm stumped in one dimension I will often explore another.

Consider completing the entire form of the piece, then fill in the melody and the rest later. Also, try reharmonizing what you have, or try changing the rhythmic feel. Try treating the motivic material you already have as an antecedent phrase, and then create a consequent (answer) phrase to it. Try also repeating what you have, only reharmonized, rerhythmicized, re-metered, transposed, augmented or diminuted—or try a different song style altogether, such as a ballad or waltz. Try recording yourself improvising on what you have, and then take the best ideas that came up in this manner and develop them.

Basically, when in this blocked position, I will try to identify what it is that I deemed special enough to begin the composition in the first place. Then I may try to eliminate—at least for the time being—all other non-essential ideas and start over again with the most important ideas. Most of the time I picture myself performing this piece with my sound style—and group style in mind. The piece will then usually begin to talk to me while I'm waling or driving down the street.

Having said all of this, if the block persists, give it up for now. I have found that if the initial inspiration is strong enough, what you have will develop itself semi- or sub-consciously at a later time. Therefore, when experimenting with the suggestions above, still don't allow yourself to force anything into the composition, since such ideas are usually not worthy.


Composition Editing

I like to satisfy myself that, even though the melody is the most important element, each of the other dimensions is nonetheless equally strong in their own right. To my creative process, assuring that each element can stand on its own assures that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. If I don't do this, I can never be certain that a weak link is depending on a stronger (for example, a weak melody relying on hip chords, etc).

Ask yourself:

1. Does the melody sound good by itself? (Strong enough to stand on its own).
a. line
b. melodic rhythms

2. Does the chord progression sound good by itself?

*3. Does the root progression sound good by itself?

4. Is the rhythmic groove strong; does it successfully support the melody?

5. Does the overall composition create a strong personal mood that will impel me to play it?

6. Have I created a straight jacket for any of the instruments?

7. Does it have a strong personal fingerprint, or is it a clone of a thousand other, similar tunes?

Exactly when I get to the final stages of a new composition's development, I test it in the following way to top it off:

1. Sing and play the melody repeatedly—without accompaniment, which might cause you to further refine it.

2. Do the same with the root progression.

3. Do the same with the guide tone lines.

4. Do the same with just the melodic rhythms.

5. Play it, first by yourself, then with a group; then edit it again.


This almost always causes my common sense and musical semi- or sub-conscious to refine and edit it to a subtly deeper level.

*Most of the time the root is in the bottom, but if, in inversion, there is another note, I would use it, since that's why it was inverted—to help create a better line. The bigger point, I think, is that this under-line, if you will, can be a powerful line also. If you compress it by half, quarter or more, this melodic quality becomes more obvious.

98% of the music in standards and jazz is harmonized in root position chords. Therefore, it's logical to look for strong root movement in a jazz composition.

Check out the analyses of many tunes at: http://www.freejazzinstitute.org There's a great deal that will help you in analysis.

[Phil Kelly]

What Ed said ..he's thought this stuff through!