What if RVGs were Malcolm Addey’d?

[shawn·m]

A very snobbish line of thought:

Van Gelder turned out a few RVG’s that are Ok, but overall, the degree of compression he uses drives me nuts. With a few exceptions, I’ll take early McMasters over RVGs for preserving what dynamics the masters offer. But McMaster’s work started changing around the time of the RVG series’ introduction, and are now just as compressed as RVGs.

I’m wondering if RVG and McMaster must hold to a Blue Note compression standard? Enter Malcolm Addey, the only engineer capable of pleasing RVG fans and early McMaster fans alike. Malcolm’s work isn’t as compressed, yet even RVG-ers seem happy with his work.

How did Malcolm slip the compression noose? Are Blue Note authoring thugs waiting for him ’round the next bend? How long can he hold out? How long?

[Ologig]

You forgot rolled-off highs with regard to the RVGs.

The thing is--alot of people seem to like loud-compressed sound (from reading the boards here and elsewhere). It makes newer versions sound better and/or different to people who already have the original or previous CD-versions.

I doubt we will hear an overall change in the use of extreme compression in BN re-issues, but it's too bad imo, especially for those who are just starting jazz collections.

Even SACDs are not exempt from extreme compression it seems:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16542

[Tenorman]

Could this be one of the reasons why some of us have been extolling the virtues of analogue (not PCM) Vinyl on another thread?

[shawn·m]

Ah yes, cruddy SACD authoring. I’ve had the misfortune of running across just one to-remain-nameless stinker. High-end rolled off, remaining lower high-end boosted and the whole thing compressed to the point of audible special effects. I can’t think of a faster way to kill SACD than producing hi-rez disks authored for boom boxes.

Jeez, give Malcolm an SACD chance!

[J.A.W.]

Originally posted by shawn-m
Ah yes, cruddy SACD authoring. I’ve had the misfortune of running across just one to-remain-nameless stinker. High-end rolled off, remaining lower high-end boosted and the whole thing compressed to the point of audible special effects. I can’t think of a faster way to kill SACD than producing hi-rez disks authored for boom boxes.

Jeez, give Malcolm an SACD chance!

Why not name the stinker, to prevent others from throwing away money...

[shawn·m]

I naively thought I might be able to spring my previous post without naming names. But in the interest of preserving my good name and integrity… Shortly after its general release, my copy of SACD Blue Train found a new home in a landfill somewhere.

Unfortunately, as Ologig pointed out, there are those that actually like compressed sound for its “warmth” and detail. But Whatdaya say we give Malcolm Addey an SACD chance! Maybe just about everybody will be pleased with the results.

[JPW]

Originally posted by shawn-m
A very snobbish line of thought:

Van Gelder turned out a few RVG’s that are Ok, but overall, the degree of compression he uses drives me nuts.
hmm, I'll take late 70s / early 80s Toshiba-EMI reissues over any CD remaster anyday.
Toshiba-EMI used original Westrex lathes and amps for most of their reissues. The result is so much better than the CD remasters it's hilarious.
They also pulled out the stops a few times to produce non-compressed minimally-EQed sides from the masters using state of the art Neumann cutting lathes. The results are simplyu breathtaking and provide a fresh window onto the music.
Mint LPs are less than half the price of new CDs, too.
By the way, recording technology back in the fifties ensured that roll-off was somewhere around 14khz...

[Greg]

Yeah right. New Toshiba LPs for half the price of a CD? I can find the RVGs for $8.99--you mean to tell me that I can find imported Blue Note LPs in mint condition for $4.50? WHERE?!

[shawn·m]

Malcolm, Malcolm, he’s our man.
If he can’t do it, then maybe Doug Sax can.

[Ologig]

By the way, recording technology back in the fifties ensured that roll-off was somewhere around 14khz...

I'm talking about comparing the McMaster versions to the RVG versions. The RVGs are clearly rolled-off in comparison--things like the higher notes from trumpets & cymbal sounds are most affected. I guess there are enough people who like this too--it might make the recordings sound 'smoother', more 'natural', and take away perceived digital harshness. But the RVGs sound 'grey' to me and less like live music imo.

But I think RVGs are still a good deal for people just getting into this music.

[JPW]

Originally posted by Greg
Yeah right. New Toshiba LPs for half the price of a CD? I can find the RVGs for $8.99--you mean to tell me that I can find imported Blue Note LPs in mint condition for $4.50? WHERE?!
erm... Look below my name and you'll see my location :D
I've brought about 30 Tosh-Emi BN LPs for between 5 and 10$ each over the last couple of weeks. I've been on a BN binge :smokin:
My local shop is "Parade" records in Mitaka, which is where I live in Tokyo.
The RVGs are clearly rolled-off in comparison--things like the higher notes from trumpets & cymbal sounds are most affected. I guess there are enough people who like this too--it might make the recordings sound 'smoother', more 'natural', and take away perceived digital harshness. But the RVGs sound 'grey' to me and less like live music imo.
Are you sure that is roll-off rather than compression / gating artefacts?
I've been playing an 80s US rerelase vinyl version of Tony Williams' "Spring" today, and that displays some really nasty aretfacts in the cymbals at times. Could well be sloppy remastering.
Since many original BN records roll off somewhere around 14khz - the RVGs would have to be very bad indeed to be rolled off below that!
I guess tube cutting gear and tube mic preamps would tend to roll off in the same way tube amps do: euphonic and smoothly.
I'm repeating myself, but the 45rpm "Autumn Leaves" is something of a revelation.