Guitarist with Alternate Tunings

[phaedrusgbe]

Hey guys, sorry if this is in the wrong forum, I couldn't decide if it belonged here or in Musician 2 Musician.

I was wondering if anyone knew of any jazz guitarist that experimented or played with alternate tunings for the guitar, perhaps open tunings and such. I know a lot of blues/slide players seem to utilize these tunings often, and it seems like a much better way to think of the theory involved in certain styles of jazz.

[Stackabones]

Kurt Rosenwinkel.

[phaedrusgbe]

Awesome! Thanks for the help.

[Jakeweiser]

Pat Metheny

[Minorblues]

Yea I think the album where Rosenwinkel messed with alternate tunings was The Next Step, the song Zhivago being the most famous example. I'm sure he's done it on other albums.

Check out this video of Peter Mazza (NY guitarist) playing on green dolphin street in open tuning. The picture is too dark to see what's happening, but have a listen to the crazy chordal work. http://youtube.com/watch?v=LnaSyEgxoRo


I'm also going to assume that Ben Monder has messed with open tuning, though his music sounds way out there even in regular tuning...I could be wrong but check him out.

[phaedrusgbe]

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll check out Peter Mazza when I'm not on a public computer.

The reason I ask this is because I switched my playing from standard to open E the other day, and find that it's very condusive for jazz style playing. I had to relearn all my chords (and I'm working on scales now), but I find it much easier/logical to play multiple voicings and realize note relationships, since across the fret you have 5ths, octaves and thirds lined up. There's also something about the open tuning sound that I enjoy, regardless of which key I'm playing in.

[senorblues]

Joe Beck plays in what he calls an alto tuning? It works for him as I think he is an inovator and great player. I understand the Joe has been fighting cancer and wish him all the best.

[JJ-JUNIOR]

The reason I ask this is because I switched my playing from standard to open E the other day,

How does it look like an open E tuning?

[edrowland]

Non-responsive, but somewhat on topic...

I've always thought that it would be interesting to either tune up a semi-tone or tune down a semi-tone. The rationale: more open strings more often in jazz-standard keys like Eb, F and Bb. I do use open strings occasionally in other keys; but never in those keys. I've tried it in short doses, but I'd need to put in a serious chunk of work to make it work for me. Strangely enough, I have real difficulty playing in what should be guitar-friendly keys, like E and A, just because I get to play in those keys so rarely.

Has anyone tried that, or heard of anyone doing that (tuning up or down by one semi-tone)?

[rob k]

I remember meeting a guitarist who tuned to 'symmetrical' tuning, which I believe was EADGCF. Anyways, it allowed him to play the same fingers for chords all across the neck, and let him get some very interesting sounds. At the same time there were many things that he could not do since he wasn't in standard tuning.. In my opinion I would just go with standard because alternate tunings would just complicate a lot of things, especially lessons. And you have to learn pretty much everything all over again...

[7/4]

I remember meeting a guitarist who tuned to 'symmetrical' tuning, which I believe was EADGCF. Anyways, it allowed him to play the same fingers for chords all across the neck, and let him get some very interesting sounds. At the same time there were many things that he could not do since he wasn't in standard tuning.. In my opinion I would just go with standard because alternate tunings would just complicate a lot of things, especially lessons. And you have to learn pretty much everything all over again...

Stanley Jordan also tunes in fourths.

[7/4]

Hey guys, sorry if this is in the wrong forum, I couldn't decide if it belonged here or in Musician 2 Musician.

I was wondering if anyone knew of any jazz guitarist that experimented or played with alternate tunings for the guitar, perhaps open tunings and such. I know a lot of blues/slide players seem to utilize these tunings often, and it seems like a much better way to think of the theory involved in certain styles of jazz.

Not a Jazz player, but Derek Trucks uses open E for non-slide playing.

[Shawn]

Although I don't really consider myself a "jazz" player, I really enjoy alternate tunings. The ones I use most commonly are Drop D, Double Drop D, DADGAD, Open D, Drop C#, and "Bruce Palmer Modal Tuning" - EBEEBE

[phaedrusgbe]

Yeah, D Trucks is the one that got me on this tuning. He uses it for all his playing (slide as well as fingerstyle). A really interesting sound/style is obtained by using the slide on the third finger and using the first two to alter a major chord to either dom7/7/min/min7. I find I can emulate the sound of a trombone section or a clarinet quite well.

I had another question, a little off topic, but..Does anyone know what type of intonation slide players use? I figure I should tune/set my intonation to an E major chord, which requires setting G# (major 3rd) a little bit flat of perfect. So do I just have to deal with my minor chords being off a little (as the minor third should be played a little sharp, if I recall correctly)? I have heard a little of equal/meantone temperament through classes, but not sure which would be best. Any advice is welcome.

Thanks guys, I'm really digging these forums.

[Stackabones]

I had another question, a little off topic, but..Does anyone know what type of intonation slide players use? I figure I should tune/set my intonation to an E major chord, which requires setting G# (major 3rd) a little bit flat of perfect. So do I just have to deal with my minor chords being off a little (as the minor third should be played a little sharp, if I recall correctly)?

That's what I do. You could just tune the third regularly (rather than a bit flat) so that the minor chords will be little more in tune ... but you'll miss the rich sound of major third that just intonation gives you.

I've always wondered if the Buzz Feiten (sp?) system would work well with open tunings.

Be thankful you're not a steel player. Crazy adjustments to tuning.

[OnyaBirri]

Don't forget Nick Drake. Not jazz, but an incredible guitarist/singer/songwriter.

[Shawn]

Don't forget Nick Drake. Not jazz, but an incredible guitarist/singer/songwriter.

Love Drake. What tuning did he use?

[OnyaBirri]

Love Drake. What tuning did he use?


It's been a while since I've tried to play anything, but I *think* he used DADGAD and also regular tuning with the low E dropped to a D. Maybe some others.

[Thomas McElroy]

I believe that Frank Gambale has an alternate tuning that he uses as well... you can also go here to find more tunings

http://www.bigcitystring.com/tgslack.htm

[bluenote82]

Jazz Guitarists that use alternate tunings:

Ben Monder
Pat Metheny
Kurt Rosenwinkel
Ralph Towner
Lenny Breau

I'm sure there are more than that, but that's all think of right now.

I've used alternate tunings a good bit, but only for rhythm. I can't do like Kurt Rosenwinkel and play scales with them. I usually use variations on the DADGAD tuning like BABDAD, DACEAD, CACEAD, BADGAB, etc. You can get some beautiful chords with these tunings. I almost always play alternate tunings on acoustic guitar, because they sound better than on electric or at least they do to me. I will occassionally use an alternate tuned electric for these kinds of parts, but not usually.

[harmolodic]

James Blood Ulmer.

[gennation]

John Mclaughlin

[Jakeweiser]

I played in Drop D for about 30 minutes today, does that count ;)

[gennation]

I played in Drop D for about 30 minutes today, does that count ;)

You always count Jake!

[guitarjazz]

Ralph Patt...major third tuning. ralphpatt.com

[guitarjazz]

Didn't Metheny tune his 12-string in fifths?
I think he tunes his baritone acoustic with a fourth string( 'a' in this case) up an octave..sort of a variation on the Nashville high-string thing. That gives him those beautiful close voicings.