MiniDisk vs. mp3 player

[GA Russell]

I'm planning on buying one or the other. Does anyone have any opinions?

One friend on another board insists that mp3s sound as good as MiniDisks, but I thought the MiniDisk was supposed to be much better.

I'm pretty sure I understand the mp3 sales pitch. With today's technology, why would the MiniDisk be considered better?

It used to be that mp3 players loaded much faster. I see that the MiniDisk player now has a fast-loading option too. Anybody know the speed difference?

[jazzypaul]

I don't know about speed differences, but I've always been a fan of Minidiscs. no hard drive to crash, no buffering problems, just smooth sailing. And the sound difference IS huge, despite what anyone may tell you.

[DWBass]

.......unless you're going to load it up with mp3's!! I would rather use a minidisc player anyway due to it not having an operating system. I've had several mp3 players that just stopped working due to some software glitch or from static shock or whatever. With 700mb minidisc's, you can load up hours of music!

[jazzypaul]

yeah, that most definitely works. I got my portable with a USB link to do just that.

[GA Russell]

Thanks for your input, guys!

I don't understand the reference to the crashing hard drive. The mp3 player doesn't have any moving parts, does it? But the MiniDisk does, right? So the MiniDisk player would break/wear out first, right?

[DWBass]

Originally posted by GA Russell
Thanks for your input, guys!

I don't understand the reference to the crashing hard drive. The mp3 player doesn't have any moving parts, does it? But the MiniDisk does, right? So the MiniDisk player would break/wear out first, right? In theory, yes. But Mp3 players (the one's without HD's) are very prone to electric shocks and the minute it's zapped, it's dead. The newer, larger models with HD's are probably much more stable. I like the iPod and if I was in the market for an Mp3 player, that would be it. The cost is my problem. You can buy minidisc recorder/players for less than $100 these days. Buy 25 blank minidiscs and have your whole music library stored on them (mp3 format of course). If the mechanism goes bad, buy a new one and you still have your library on hand. Can't do the same with those Mp3 players. If the HD goes, so does your music and you'd have to re-enter your whole collection on a replacement. Just some viewpoints and my opinion alone. Make your own choice.

Peace

[Joel]

I was in the market for an iPod last Xmas but when I heard rumours of a larger drive (40 GB?), I placed it on hold.

I think an MP3 player is good if your mobile a lot and wouldnt have that skipping problem if youre running or jogging or skateboarding...ya know those types of activity.

Sound quality:

earphones wise, I'm okay with a 192 kbps MP3 and couldn't hardly tell the difference with my Discman (which uses the original CD), I'm not familiar with the MiniDisk so I cant compare.

It all depends on the headphones that you will be using, are you buying an audiophile type headphone? or just use whatever comes with the portable player?

Some people say that if you rip a track set as 256kbps (not many do this), you'll get close to "CD quality".

The word CD Quality is also debatable, is it an old album? is it remastered from an original? what is the physical condition of the CD (scratches,imperfections,etc), is it a recent release using the latest in digital mastering and the product is still in plastic (mint condition)...

What if recording industry wins and CDs are no longer "rippable"....is it worth buying an mp3 player?

lots of questions...more headaches....:D

[DWBass]

I feel an mp3 sounds way better than a cassette. In that context, if you're jogging and bouncing around and whether you encode at 128kbs or 256kbs, you won't hear the difference. I agree about the not skipping due to no moving parts (non HD models). My bad experience was with a Rio600 unit. Other brands may be better built and more electric shock proof. I wasted $179 (2 years ago) and the thing worked for only 2 months. I had no service plan so I had to bite the bullet on that one!

[Lazy Lew]

Originally posted by DWBass
<SNIP<You can buy minidisc recorder/players for less than $100 these days. Buy 25 blank minidiscs and have your whole music library stored on them (mp3 format of course). <SNIP<Peace

Sorry if this is a dumb question for you guys, but I don't know much about MP3's and all that.
I understand you can download MP3's from your PC straight onto mini-disk, right?
Does this mean you have recorded "compressed" music like that, and will the 74 minutes of the disk store more time this way?

[DWBass]

Yes, the music would be in mp3 format on the minidisc which holds the same amount of information as a cd-r. Roughly 700mb of mp3's is quite a lot. Broken down, if your average song is 3-1/2 minutes in length, you can get up to 200 songs on 1 minidisc at 128kbs. Less if encoded at higher bitrates. Remember also, that a lot of the mp3 portables don't have more than 128mb of memory and that isn't a lot. It's roughly 36 songs at the most. But you can buy several memory cards, sticks, etc. and store your songs on those as well but bear in mind the static shock thing I spoke of that could zap away all your music.

[Lazy Lew]

Thanks, that's very interesting - it brings about another (dumb?) question though.
I don't have an MP3 player, but I do have a minidiskplayer.
Do I need to hook the minidiskplayer up to a PC for play-back of a disk containing MP3's , or does this work also straight in the hi-fi amp?

[DWBass]

Originally posted by Lazy Lew
Thanks, that's very interesting - it brings about another (dumb?) question though.
I don't have an MP3 player, but I do have a minidiskplayer.
Do I need to hook the minidiskplayer up to a PC for play-back of a disk containing MP3's , or does this work also straight in the hi-fi amp? It depends on the model you have. If it is a newer model, it may have come with a cable and software to connect to the PC. If not a newer model, I don't think it can be connected to a PC. You can record music from your hifi (using a RCA to stereo 1/8" mini jack) but it will be like a regular cd with 12-15 songs at the most.

[GA Russell]

Very Informative!

DWB, I had no idea about the static shock problem.

Can anyone recommend a particular brand and model regarding the MiniDisk, and if so why and compared to what?

[DWBass]

Originally posted by GA Russell
Very Informative!

DWB, I had no idea about the static shock problem.

Can anyone recommend a particular brand and model regarding the MiniDisk, and if so why and compared to what?

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_BrowseCatalog-Start;sid=RC1559WVSzx5x-vf2Ghz7JqZ6ylhAxUD--w=?CategoryName=pa_Walkman_MiniDiscWalkman

Click on the above link. There are a few high level models at the top of the page and a few models for less than $200 toward the bottom. Retail stores will probably have them for even cheaper prices.

[suzi8kat]

just to add to the confusion.

i bought an mp3 player with a harddrive in it.
it is an Achos 20gig jukebox. ive used it frequently and used it everywhere. it has been a great little player. the headphones that come with it are pretty crap, so make sure and buy a decent pair to get the best out of it.
because it has 20 gig of space you can easily rip your cd's higher than 128 bits and they sound pretty good ( for an mp3 player) even at higher bit rates you will be unlikely to fill up 20 gig of hard drive. i did drop mine once but its still working scratches an all. so i guess they are built to last. My unit is over a year old now and i would happily buy another one.

I download my music via my pc using the usb2 . just a few mins for several mp3 files.

hope this helps


suzi

[GA Russell]

This has been a very informative thread and I am glad to have learned from it.

It is apparent that this board's moderator is willing to tolerate bigoted remarks relating to my religion so I won't be back.

Peace!

[Lazy Lew]

Originally posted by GA Russell

It is apparent that this board's moderator is willing to tolerate bigoted remarks relating to my religion so I won't be back.


I don't see any religion mentioned in this thread.

[Coypu]

He was probably refering the voices in his head. You know how religious people are... j/k

[suzi8kat]

well i did look back through the thread just to see if i missed something. must be an alternate universe huh.....

oh well go figure

Su-Z-Q

[jazzypaul]

Coypu, how long ago did I tell you that it wasn't cool to bring up the religion thing, especially in a disrespectful light here? Now we're losing some wonderful people here because you can't just shut up and listen to some jazz. What is that? You're better off gone.

[suzi8kat]

hey jazzypaul

please re-read my message.

i re-read this whole thread and see no slanderous comments about anyones religous beliefs.
You know sometimes i get more than little hacked off when most folk are getting along just fine. then along comes one person who thinks (and only thinks) that everyone is on his case. maybe he is a good person, but so is everyone else in here. why not tell the guy complaining and bitching essentially about nothing to moderate his attitude ?

then again u could always end up with one or two religous folk left and everyone else takes off outta here.................

now where is that damn alternate universe , sounds like a good place to be.......

suzi

[Coypu]

Originally posted by jazzypaul
Coypu, how long ago did I tell you that it wasn't cool to bring up the religion thing, especially in a disrespectful light here? Now we're losing some wonderful people here because you can't just shut up and listen to some jazz. What is that? You're better off gone.

didn't we agree to drop the hostile attitude and useless attacks?

Here is something that you should learn :

j/k = just kidding.

Now with that in mind re-read my previous post and see if you can't see the humour in it.

[jazzypaul]

Coypu --

1) I wasn't referring to this thread. But, on other threads where you say Christianity no longer serves the common good. You really think this isn't going to offend someone?

2) You come out and openly support the work and deeds of Varg Viernes, who burnt down churches. You really think this isn't going to offend someone?

Coypu, because of the fact that you have never bothered to learn about this music and its history, you forget that it has very strong ties to both the Christian church and the Nation of Islam. And no small amount of Jazz players are buddhist. If you want to come out and say you are an athiest, that is fine, but it should have been left there. When you decided that it was okay to slam peoples religious beliefs, you put yourself up for this. And yes, now we've got even more people leaving because of things you have said.

Do I want you banned? The way things are now, you bet. And it's nothing against you, it's the fact that you bring nothing good to the discussions. You piss people off with your constant attacks on the music (it's a jazz site. Saying anything that even smacks of the derogatory without something to balance it out is an attack). Now you're pissing people off with your comments on religion. I hope that you'll take some time off, listen to the whole of the jazz tradition, learn some respect for it and come back. Come back with questions, come back with ideas. But come back having learned something about jazz. If you find yourself not liking the music, you're better off somewhere else.

[Coypu]

Originally posted by jazzypaul
Coypu --

1) I wasn't referring to this thread. But, on other threads where you say Christianity no longer serves the common good. You really think this isn't going to offend someone?

2) You come out and openly support the work and deeds of Varg Viernes, who burnt down churches. You really think this isn't going to offend someone?

Coypu, because of the fact that you have never bothered to learn about this music and its history, you forget that it has very strong ties to both the Christian church and the Nation of Islam. And no small amount of Jazz players are buddhist. If you want to come out and say you are an athiest, that is fine, but it should have been left there. When you decided that it was okay to slam peoples religious beliefs, you put yourself up for this. And yes, now we've got even more people leaving because of things you have said.

Do I want you banned? The way things are now, you bet. And it's nothing against you, it's the fact that you bring nothing good to the discussions. You piss people off with your constant attacks on the music (it's a jazz site. Saying anything that even smacks of the derogatory without something to balance it out is an attack). Now you're pissing people off with your comments on religion. I hope that you'll take some time off, listen to the whole of the jazz tradition, learn some respect for it and come back. Come back with questions, come back with ideas. But come back having learned something about jazz. If you find yourself not liking the music, you're better off somewhere else.

1) Do you beleive in ancient hedonistic mythology? Probably not, all religions have their time era and christianity is going towards its end. The archbishop of sweden even said that we shouldn't take the bible so seriously and that the miracles probably never happened, they where just there to colour the story... Christianitys time is up, America is just behind the time plan.

2) Do you support drugs just because you like Coltrane?

I'm not attacking jazz or religion, I just make obvious observations. Chrisitianity is dying here in sweden and jazz does not have faster bassplayers than DM. I just state obvious things, if you feel offended by it then it is because you are insecure in your beleifs. But hey, The archbishop of sweden knows more about religion than you so respect his opinion.

[jazzypaul]

1) This is opinion. Not fact. Everyone has their paths to God. Mine is Christianity. And while I'm far from the average Christian, nor do I necessarily "walk the walk" so much, it is my path. I allow you to not worship, allow me to do what I need to do without your interference. Not to mention, there's no need to talk about it here.

2) Once again, you prove you don't know what you're talking about. Trane's best work was done after 1957, or, after he got clean. And you've done a great job of dodging this one.

3) Again, this is opinion. Learn about jazz, then come back and state your opinions on jazz. But learn about jazz first. Again, more dodging. And as for the Archbishop of Sweden, he knows more about Catholicism than I do. But I'll go head to head with him on Biblical knowledge and the teachings in the gospels any day of the week.

[suzi8kat]

hey everyone

Live and let live.........that means everyone..........religious or not.


Su-Z-Q

[Coypu]

1) Good Luck, you have choosen you base your life on a illogical beleif but if that is what you want the go ahead, I won't stop you.

2) Well, Varg never killed or burned churches during his best works either so what's your point?

3) We are protestants in sweden so he would kick your ass in that stuff. They need to study lots of religion before they get a title like that, you are very arrogant claiming to be able to take on the archbishop. He could call upon god and strike you down with a lightning bolt...

[jazzypaul]

Again Coypu -- discuss jazz or leave.

[DWBass]

Originally posted by Coypu
3) We are protestants in sweden so he would kick your ass in that stuff. They need to study lots of religion before they get a title like that, you are very arrogant claiming to be able to take on the archbishop. He could call upon god and strike you down with a lightning bolt... Hmmmmmmm! This coming from an Athiest!?! Yeah, I know it was your attempt at sarcasm!!

You just proved what I've been telling everyone here! You are a complete idiot who does not care about anyone's feeling's in regards to religion or OUR AMERICAN ARTFORM called Jazz! I know that you know that Jazz is an artform based in Christianity! You want to infect it with DM thereby diluting the christian aspect out of the artform. You can't stand that it is a christian based artform! I did my research on the DM genre and where it comes from and it's beliefs. You claim to be Athiest but surely you believe in something! Like I said before, your cultlike existance will lead to your violent ruin my friend. You are way better off in Sweden. You would not dare step foot in our beautiful country with beliefs like you have. You would surely be treated like a terrorist. You are a fool!

[DWBass]

Originally posted by Coypu
Chrisitianity is dying here in sweden and jazz does not have faster bassplayers than DM. Is this all your stupid argument is about??? What a stupid moronic statement! Christianity in jazz and whether or not jazz has faster bassplayers? You have to be kidding me!!!:confused: Well, you tried to come here and post intellegently (tried!) but we weeded out your true agenda!! What a fool! You surely wouldn't have made it as a spy! What's the name of your cult? I'd like to do some research!!;)

[Coypu]

Originally posted by DWBass
Hmmmmmmm! This coming from an Athiest!?! Yeah, I know it was your attempt at sarcasm!!

You just proved what I've been telling everyone here! You are a complete idiot who does not care about anyone's feeling's in regards to religion or OUR AMERICAN ARTFORM called Jazz! I know that you know that Jazz is an artform based in Christianity! You want to infect it with DM thereby diluting the christian aspect out of the artform. You can't stand that it is a christian based artform! I did my research on the DM genre and where it comes from and it's beliefs. You claim to be Athiest but surely you believe in something! Like I said before, your cultlike existance will lead to your violent ruin my friend. You are way better off in Sweden. You would not dare step foot in our beautiful country with beliefs like you have. You would surely be treated like a terrorist. You are a fool!

You're so called beutiful country is one of the most violent in the world, your social security system are crap and your unemployment rates and integration is a disaster. You hand weapons to Irak and train Al quaida terrorists... Good luck with all that my fine friend.

You seem to be way deep into the whole race religion things when it comes to music. Music can be created by anyone, you don't need to be black or christian to be a jazz musician. You don't need to be a white satanist to create death metal. You have a very dangerous thinking so drop it fast.

[DWBass]

Originally posted by Coypu


You're so called beutiful country is one of the most violent in the world, your social security system are crap and your unemployment rates and integration is a disaster. You hand weapons to Irak and train Al quaida terrorists... Good luck with all that my fine friend. Just the same, I'd rather be living here and not surrounded by Death Metal loving cultists!

[Coypu]

Originally posted by DWBass
Just the same, I'd rather be living here and not surrounded by Death Metal loving cultists!

America & Sweden are the leading countries in death metal so you're out of luck either way.

[DWBass]

Originally posted by Coypu

You seem to be way deep into the whole race religion things when it comes to music. Music can be created by anyone, you don't need to be black or christian to be a jazz musician. You don't need to be a white satanist to create death metal. You have a very dangerous thinking so drop it fast.

Don't misquote me! I never said any of the above. On the other hand, you know what your agenda is! And it ain't to come here and make friends!! Secondly, I'd like to drop you fast! I agree, I am dangerous! :mad: ROTFLMAO

Seriously, you really need to leave this forum!

[DWBass]

Originally posted by Coypu


America & Sweden are the leading countries in death metal so you're out of luck either way.

Hey Coypu, say more stupid stuff, pleeeezzzeee!!:D

[jazzypaul]

Hey, don't call us a death metal country...there's only one state that makes a lot of death metal: Florida. The rest of the country does just fine without it, thank you very much. Notice that no death metal has ever come out of Chicago. We have taste here. In Florida, people have gun racks on the pickups, are proud of their '76 Camaro Berlinetta with the vinyl top and the 8-track and wave confederate flags everywhere. That's the kind of culture that produces death metal. You can have it.

[Coypu]

Originally posted by jazzypaul
Hey, don't call us a death metal country...there's only one state that makes a lot of death metal: Florida. The rest of the country does just fine without it, thank you very much. Notice that no death metal has ever come out of Chicago. We have taste here. In Florida, people have gun racks on the pickups, are proud of their '76 Camaro Berlinetta with the vinyl top and the 8-track and wave confederate flags everywhere. That's the kind of culture that produces death metal. You can have it.

Well millions of death metal albums are being sold in america every year and you have thousands of bands. Chicago have many great bands, Master is one of the finest. Make sure to check them out.

[jazzypaul]

That's right, we have many great bands, and many more great players...

The Chicago Jazz Orchestra

The B-3 Bombers

Sabertooth

Ritual Trio

and hundreds of great groups that I'm not thinking of right now.

not to mention...

Frank Catalano
Kurt Elling
Jim Gailoretto
John McLean
John Moulder
Eric Hochberg
Larry Gray
Ron Perillo
George Fludas
Marlene Rosenberg
Patricia Barber
Zvadimir Tot
Fareed Haque
Neal Alger
Willie Pickens
Jodie Christian
Kahil El'Zabar
Fred Anderson
Von Freeman
Ken Vandermark
Hamid Drake

and the list goes on. Didn't mention one death metal guy, did I? Way too much jazz going on for me to care about one or two bands, especially when I get to contend with the craziness that Hamid and Ken throw down.

[Coypu]

Well Von have my most sincere respect atleast. Well chigago have alot of jazz, I'm glad for you.

[valo]

I think I've finallythrown my hat in with jazzypaul, DW, Pharoah and the others...copyu should leave.

No offense, man. I thought the deathjazz idea was interesting, but after 500 posts, it gets a bit tiresome. Furthermore, whether or not you always say offensive things doesn't matter. The bottom line is that you disrupt the forum. Threads start on one subject, and end up on the Archbishop of Sweden...

You should comply with the democratic decision of this forum and find some other place...

[Coypu]

Originally posted by valo
I think I've finallythrown my hat in with jazzypaul, DW, Pharoah and the others...copyu should leave.

No offense, man. I thought the deathjazz idea was interesting, but after 500 posts, it gets a bit tiresome. Furthermore, whether or not you always say offensive things doesn't matter. The bottom line is that you disrupt the forum. Threads start on one subject, and end up on the Archbishop of Sweden...

You should comply with the democratic decision of this forum and find some other place...

Hmm, if they left the forum there would be no more discussions like this. Just look at where it all starts, it is them who constantly drag me into discussions like this. If they stopped then the problem would go away.

[jazzypaul]

Coypu, if you don't want us to engage you, you should talk about things relevant to the forum. Like jazz. and that's it. Not fusion, not death metal, not the archbishop of sweden. Jazz. As played with acoustic instruments. THAT's Jazz. So talk about that. Or leave.

[Coypu]

Originally posted by jazzypaul
Coypu, if you don't want us to engage you, you should talk about things relevant to the forum. Like jazz. and that's it. Not fusion, not death metal, not the archbishop of sweden. Jazz. As played with acoustic instruments. THAT's Jazz. So talk about that. Or leave.

Champjam and you should have a blast together once all fusion and innovative music have been purged from this forum.

[valo]

Now you're baiting people, copyu. It's becoming pretty obvious that you just want to piss people off, and that makes for pointless discussions. Challenging opinions are good, but discussions are two-way streets and your street only seems to go one way. So find the exit ramp...

[DWBass]

Originally posted by Coypu


Hmm, if they left the forum there would be no more discussions like this. Just look at where it all starts, it is them who constantly drag me into discussions like this. If they stopped then the problem would go away. Hey, if it wasn't us, it would be someone else!! Come on, say more stupid stuff!! :D

[DWBass]

Hey Coypu, here's a link you should check out.


http://www.aic.se/jazzweb/

A jazz website direct from Sweden! Go there and let them have it!

[jazzypaul]

Originally posted by Coypu


Champjam and you should have a blast together once all fusion and innovative music have been purged from this forum.

Who said anything about getting rid of innovative music? I just don't want to hear about fusion. When we get to innovative music, I'm all about it...

Matthew Shipp
Ethan Iverson
Jason Lindner
Jason Moran
Earthworks
John Zorn
Wayne Horovitz
Kurt Rosenwinkel
Pat Metheny
etc
etc
etc

all are musicians who are innovative...AND ARE JAZZ!!!!!!!

[Coypu]

Matthew Shipp? yeah right, Space Shipp swings alot less than Tribal Tech! I like this kind of music more than regular jazz but it striked me as hypocritical to accept Shipp and Zorn but to shun Tribal Tech and the likes.

[jazzypaul]

Shipp is all over the place, and no matter what, his voicings and chordal choices are all about jazz. But Matthew Shipp has been on more recordings than you've heard (his work with David S. Ware is stellar) and Zorn's work with Masada and Big John Patton alone allow him entry into the jazz ranks. Not to mention Zorn's tributes to Sonny Clark and Ornette Coleman. Both of those guys can swing and do. Tribal Tech very rarely does.

[Coypu]

So what percentage of jazz songs must an artist play to be accepted at this forum?

[jazzypaul]

That's a jive question and you know it. Either listen to jazz, appreciate it and discuss it, or leave. What is so hard about that? You've lost most of your support that you ever have had here. People are leaving because of you and others are begging you to leave. Why can't you take a hint?

Basically, I think the key is, when you say an artist and 6 out of 10 jazz fans call them jazz, then it's discussable. I don't think anyone outside of their management and record label have called Tribal Tech jazz in a long long time. I know no one refers to Cynic, Atheist, Spastik Ink or Spiral Architecture as jazz. Let's hear your thoughts on Duke Ellington. As in right now, on your next post, Coypu. What do you think of Duke Ellington. Giving specific songs, what is it that you love about Ellington? Every jazz fan loves Ellington. If you can't tell me exactly what it is that you love about Ellington, you shouldn't be here. Let's see how quickly you post now.

[Coypu]

So what if I talk about fusion, fusion is a subgenre to jazz. Many people here like fusion and I also beleive than LOTS of people would also appreciate a band like Cynic. I have seen that band appeal to all kinds of people, I think that we shouldn't just ignore good music just because it isn't aryan.

You accept Zorn because you like him, he is no more valid than Tribal Tech though, some of Zorns stuff is even less jazz than most death metal. So Atheist recorded a latin jazz song once, is it ok for me to talk about them here???

The feeling of jazz is pretty ok, I have heard better though.

[jazzypaul]

Fusion is a subgenre to jazz, just as disco is to rock, therefore making it a relative of death metal. How many death metal threads bring up Chuck Berry (a direct ancestor) or The Village People (a cousin of sorts) in a positive light? I'm pretty sure that it's close to none. And when it comes right down to it, the death metal guys could learn a hell of a lot more listening to Chuck Berry and The Village People than we could from listening to Tribal Tech. Give it up already!

I accept Zorn because he plays jazz in many contexts. Outside of talking to you, have I ever mentioned Naked City? Of course not! You keep harping on the fact that Zorn has done some non-jazz things, and you're right, he has. But by far and wide, the vast majority of his recorded legacy will be as a pioneer in the world of free, avant and yiddish JAZZ!!!! What part of that do you not understand?

"The feeling of Jazz, is pretty ok..." Nope, not good enough. Every jazz fan (and if you're not a jazz fan, you have no business posting here) LOVES Ellington. So what is it that you LOVE about Ellington. Give me a specific song that you absolutely adore and tell me why. You have no reason to post here again until you can do that.

[Coypu]

ok you asked for it :

If You Don't Like The Village People, You're Fucking Gay

Jacques Morali wrote the heaviest music ever
Glenn Hughes had a deeper voice than Will from Mortician
He wore chains before Slayer and Venom
Jacques Morali was portrayed by Steve Guttenberg

[Chorus 1:]
If you don't like the Village people- you're fucking gay
If you think Jeff Olson was better cowboy- you're fucking gay
If you think Ray Simpson was a better cop- you're fucking gay
If you think Y.M.C.A. was their best song- you're fucking gay

All death metal songs were ripped off from Village People
"Evil dead" by Death is actually "Liberation" from the Village People
Will Rahmer looks like he should be in the Village People
No, Morbid Florist wasn't a reference to Will Rahmer

[Chorus 2:]
If you think Death were good after their demos- you're fucking gay
*cencored*
*cencored*
If you think of Hellhammer as the drummer of Mayhem- you're fucking gay

-------------------

We in death metal dig things as the Village People as well. (Yes thoose are Anal Cunt lyrics)-

Well I don't love Ellington and its not a criteria to be on a jazz forum. Show me where it says so if you can.

[Coypu]

http://forums.teufelstomb.com/viewtopic.php?t=755 A classical music thread at Teufelstomb, and that forum is as death metal as you can get.

[DWBass]

Originally posted by Coypu
So what percentage of jazz songs must an artist play to be accepted at this forum? It's not how much you listen to, it's relating to it and discussing it here! That's the whole point of this forum. Discussing jazz! We will defend this forum and what it stands for. If you can't or won't fit in, then take our suggestion and find another forum that is more receptive to your views and beliefs. Coypu, you could be a real likeable young man if you'd not impale us with unwarranted, unresearched, non-relative rantings. For once, listen to us. Learn from us. Give us old folks the benefit of the doubt that we know what we're talking about!

[Coypu]

Originally posted by DWBass
It's not how much you listen to, it's relating to it and discussing it here! That's the whole point of this forum. Discussing jazz! We will defend this forum and what it stands for. If you can't or won't fit in, then take our suggestion and find another forum that is more receptive to your views and beliefs. Coypu, you could be a real likeable young man if you'd not impale us with unwarranted, unresearched, non-relative rantings. For once, listen to us. Learn from us. Give us old folks the benefit of the doubt that we know what we're talking about!

Sure but do you really think that Fusion should be banned from this forum?

[jazzypaul]

Originally posted by Coypu
Well I don't love Ellington and its not a criteria to be on a jazz forum. Show me where it says so if you can.

Well, one would assume that it is kind of a requirement to be a jazz fan, which you're not. But from the AAJ Etiquette thread....

All About Jazz provides these bulletin boards as a service to the jazz community for the purpose of providing a free, neutral forum for AAJ readers to share their thoughts, opinions and views on jazz-related topics. This is a jazz music forum

You are not part of the jazz community. You have rarely talked about jazz-related topics (remember jazz is based on three things...swing, improvisation and a feeling of the blues. That's the official definition, home slice. Go look it up.) except to talk about how smooth or weak our music is. And, it is a JAZZ MUSIC forum. I know Mike got on you before for posting death metal lyrics. I'm sure he'll be happy to see lines like...

"If you think rape is wrong -- you're gay"
and the other Dylan-esque quote in there...
"If you think the holocaust was wrong -- you're gay"

yeah dude, you're adding so much positive energy to this forum. You've destroyed a classical music forum already. Just stay there.

[jazzypaul]

I don't think fusion should be banned from the forum, but it should definitely stay in fusion related threads, and it should certainly be contained to music that the jazz community at large would deem fusion. There is no need to ever talk about Death Metal anywhere within this forum. And really, there is no need to talk about fusion except where it is welcomed. Most of us, save for DWBass (who you've alienated), aren't into fusion, and your fusion posts make most of us roll our eyes. No, fusion shouldn't be banned. But you should.

[Coypu]

well this forum have a fusion recomendation thread as well so it seems like fusion is ok on this forum after all.

what is the official definition of Fusion?

I censored the lyrics, I wasn't meaning to be offensice, only show that there are some huge fans out there.

[Coypu]

Originally posted by jazzypaul
I don't think fusion should be banned from the forum, but it should definitely stay in fusion related threads, and it should certainly be contained to music that the jazz community at large would deem fusion. There is no need to ever talk about Death Metal anywhere within this forum. And really, there is no need to talk about fusion except where it is welcomed. Most of us, save for DWBass (who you've alienated), aren't into fusion, and your fusion posts make most of us roll our eyes. No, fusion shouldn't be banned. But you should.

well that is your opinion but I disagree, do you have anything concrete to go on or is it just your allmighty will? And this site have recomended Mahavishnu, Holdsworth, Tribal Tech etc so don't slag me for naming them agan.

[jazzypaul]

Fine Coypu, there is a fusion recommendation thread. Then answer me this...

When was the last time it was even looked at, much less posted on by someone who is not you?

Besides you and DWBass, who else, of the people that regularly post here, (that fusion lover guy doesn't count, he was basically talking about Vince Guaraldi, who is definitely NOT fusion) actually talk much about fusion?

Tell you what...I'm gonna put up a poll. "How many people find Coypu to be completely annoying?" If it's over 50%, will you please leave? We don't want you here. It'd be different if you were even remotely interested in jazz, but you're not, and there ARE prog rock/fusion forums you could go to. My next step is to talk to Mike and have him ban your IP address.

[DWBass]

Originally posted by Coypu


Sure but do you really think that Fusion should be banned from this forum? Honestly, no! I love jazz fusion and feel that it should be discussed and that it is a part of the Jazz collective. I speak of bands like Metro, Spyro Gyra, Return To Forever, Mahavishnu Orch., Weather Report, Elektric Band, Vital Information, Steps Ahead, T-Square, Casiopea, Mezzoforte, Bela Fleck & The Flectones, Flim & The BB's, Yellowjackets, Tom Coster Band, Dave Weckl Band, etc. These are some of the bands I consider to be fusion. Others have different thoughts and views but these and many solo artists fit into my criteria. I do not force these criteria on anyone. If any of these bands are relative to anyone here, I'd be happy to have a gentlemanly(sp) discussion with them. If not relative, I back off with no problem. There have been numorous discussions and threads regarding more straight ahead artists for which I would love to chime in on if I had a frame of reference but I do not. I don't come in and say what's wrong with the style or make suggestions that that style needs to merge with another to make it better. I will, however, listen to the music and appreciate it for what it is. If I don't like it, I just don't buy it. But I don't slam it.

[Coypu]

Your last attempt at "ban coypu thread" was a failure. You should get over it and actually realise that I like jazz and that I love fusion. Just treat me good and I will do the same to you.

Try that for 3 days, don't harass me when I post and you'll see that everything will stay calm. You can still debate will Champjams if you like...

[Coypu]

Originally posted by DWBass
Honestly, no! I love jazz fusion and feel that it should be discussed and that it is a part of the Jazz collective. I speak of bands like Metro, Spyro Gyra, Return To Forever, Mahavishnu Orch., Weather Report, Elektric Band, Vital Information, Steps Ahead, T-Square, Casiopea, Mezzoforte, Bela Fleck & The Flectones, Flim & The BB's, Yellowjackets, Tom Coster Band, Dave Weckl Band, etc. These are some of the bands I consider to be fusion. Others have different thoughts and views but these and many solo artists fit into my criteria. I do not force these criteria on anyone. If any of these bands are relative to anyone here, I'd be happy to have a gentlemanly(sp) discussion with them. If not relative, I back off with no problem. There have been numorous discussions and threads regarding more straight ahead artists for which I would love to chime in on if I had a frame of reference but I do not. I don't come in and say what's wrong with the style or make suggestions that that style needs to merge with another to make it better. I will, however, listen to the music and appreciate it for what it is. If I don't like it, I just don't buy it. But I don't slam it.

great, I'm glad that you feel this way. I like many of thoose bands aswell, its all good stuff. Too bad Paul wants to ban them :(

[jazzypaul]

well that is your opinion but I disagree, do you have anything concrete to go on or is it just your allmighty will? And this site have recomended Mahavishnu, Holdsworth, Tribal Tech etc so don't slag me for naming them agan.

It's my opinion that Death Metal shouldn't be talked about? I think that's EVERYONE'S opinion but yours around here.

It's my opinion that fusion should be relegated to its own forum around here? I think I would have universal support for that one.

Or is it my opinion that you're an ass who throws monkey wrenches into our otherwise decent conversations? Again, I think everyone would agree with me here as well.

Yes, all about jazz is bound to have a fusion section. notice how they hide it though?

[jazzypaul]

What JAZZ do you like Coypu? When have you ever said anything nice about jazz? Please? Show me where!!!!!

[DWBass]

Originally posted by Coypu
Your last attempt at "ban coypu thread" was a failure. You should get over it and actually realise that I like jazz and that I love fusion. Just treat me good and I will do the same to you.

Try that for 3 days, don't harass me when I post and you'll see that everything will stay calm. You can still debate will Champjams if you like... Can you try the same and not post non-relative subjects or pro DM subjects?

On another note, I've said that I like the instrumental aspect of DM. I don't like the name of the genre but it is relative to the culture involved in it. If it were to 'merge' with jazz, it would be the DM aspect that would be thinned out. It would most assuredly be slowed down. There would be more free-form. There would be more independant interaction. And lastly, it would be called something else. Hmmmm......fusion maybe?? Interesting!

[Coypu]

Well I love Zorn as one example.

Well get a fusion part and I'll discuss it there then, until then...

So what Spastic Ink songs have you heard (refering to the other thread since you never replied)-

[jazzypaul]

You love Zorn's non jazz stuff though. You wanna say he's not jazz, then live with it. ;)

As for the fusion stuff...well, you've just said it, you don't love jazz. Now leave.

I've listened to everything you've posted. It all makes me sick to my stomach.

[Coypu]

Originally posted by DWBass
Can you try the same and not post non-relative subjects or pro DM subjects?

On another note, I've said that I like the instrumental aspect of DM. I don't like the name of the genre but it is relative to the culture involved in it. If it were to 'merge' with jazz, it would be the DM aspect that would be thinned out. It would most assuredly be slowed down. There would be more free-form. There would be more independant interaction. And lastly, it would be called something else. Hmmmm......fusion maybe?? Interesting!

It sounds like something worth trying, a band did something similar once. It would be great if you could give it a listen, it sounds pretty much like how you described your idea. personal energy (http://galaxen.net/~coypu/musik/MX/pestilence%20-%20Personal%20Energy.mp3)

I will try not to post about DM again unless I'm asked about it. I really like you guys so I hope we all can get along. If we all pitch in it can happen.

[Coypu]

Originally posted by jazzypaul
You love Zorn's non jazz stuff though. You wanna say he's not jazz, then live with it. ;)

As for the fusion stuff...well, you've just said it, you don't love jazz. Now leave.

I've listened to everything you've posted. It all makes me sick to my stomach.

Why must you love something to be able to discuss it? Remember that I'm pretty new to it, maybe I love it in a few years, until then I still find the music interesting. I have helped hundreds of people getting into my favorite genres and it rarely happens over a night.

Well, spastic ink can be hard to get into if you don't like technical music but try this song . just a little dirty (http://galaxen.net/~coypu/musik/MX/spastic%20ink%20-%20Just%20A%20Little%20Dirty.mp3) , it is very catchy with great rhythmns.

[jazzypaul]

It's a question of where you're at Coypu. It's one thing in a general musical discussion, it's another matter in a JAZZ intensive forum. If you're new and you want to ask, that's one thing, and we'd all love to have you asking questions and learning, and if you're discussing things within a jazz framework, that works, but you don't love it, therefore you don't respect it, and you don't realize why it makes us livid when you say things like "jazz isn't fast" or "Britney Spears is heavier than Charles Mingus." Of course you don't mean it as a slam, but you don't love or respect the music, and so you don't see it the way that we do. On the other hand, when DWBass started talking shit about the music that you love and respect, you banned him. Are you starting to see it yet? You're not doing anything good for the forum, or yourself, for that matter by being here right now. If you want to learn, then learn. if you want to ask, then ask. But if you want to talk trash, then leave. Simple as that.

[Coypu]

I do respect jazz.

DWBass wasn't interesting in discussion at all, he just said it sucks and not anything else. If he had for example said that the vocalist in C&BT sings like shit and that jazz vocalist are better then he has a strong point and I had willingly given my view on it. Anyone is welcome to discuss with me as long as they have arguments. I just don't say that jazz suck do I?

[jazzypaul]

You may as well have. If you're interested in jazz as an artform, ask. Otherwise, take some time off and listen. Find what you like and what you don't like about JAZZ. If you don't like anything, then there's no reason to be here. If there is, then great, but then there's no reason, at all, ever, to bring up comparisons with death metal. Mentioning the music that was devised by rednecks in the everglades with the majestic beauty of jazz will always be seen by myself and others as a slam. ALWAYS. So don't do it. And if you have nothing to contribute to a JAZZ thread, then don't. Fair enough?

[Coypu]

If I told you what I like about jazz you would just get pissed so I shall keep it to myself but I shall keep the comparisons with DM to a minimum and I will try to avoid comparing it with pop stars if I can.

Let us pray that all people pitch in and do their part.

[jazzypaul]

No, if you tell me what you like about JAZZ (not fusion), but JAZZ, I would love to hear it, as I would love to know what gives you the right to be here...

[Coypu]

okay, when it comes to regular jazz what I like is the smooth sound and relaxing feeling it can get. Sortof after the gym you just feel like lying down and relax, jazz works very well then. Some Mingus or Coltrane works fine. And thats pretty much what I like about jazz sofar, I mean sure the freeform and all is great but I might aswell listen to Tribal Tech then when it comes to not relaxing, I think you understand what I'm saying here.

[MickJagger]

I don't know if this will help anyone but here it is. I bought a Sony MiniDisc portable player/recorder about a year ago and I have to admit that the thing is a pain in the butt. I bought the one that connects to your computer using a USB cable and I never could get it to work (granted my computer is a POS HP) but I had to go through a big ordeal to make my own minidiscs. I ended up running the signal through my receiver. I bought the player with the thought in mind that you could still buy pre-recorded minidiscs at places like Best Buy, but now you can't. I won't say that the music quality isn't there, IT IS! But I had a bad experience with my portable and I haven't used it since. Now, I understand that there is a difference between the portable and shelf-type minidisc player/recorder, but I am just putting my thoughts forward about the portable ones. I would highly recommend NOT buying a portable. Thanks all and we'll talk to you later! :cool:

[Lazy Lew]

Wow, it took me three pages to see another message about the original subject - what a thread...
OK MINIDISK!!!
I've heard many complaints about portable ones.
I have a shelf type and it's absolutely great gear.
I would recommend it - too bad mine is 4 years old, and doesn't have the MP3 possibilities discussed earlier in this thread (about three pages ago ;-))

[Joel]

Another thing a colleague of mine who recently bought a MiniDisk, this is what he said to me....

" it is not as intuitive as you thought they would be..."

RE: Mini Disc
If you can encode music on Mini Disc that is of higher quality than MP3, you still have to deal with its moving parts, plus the best sound you get from it is only through the headphones that you are using.

RE: MP3
lower quality (?) encoding compared to Mini Disc format. But like I said, I cant hardly tell the difference of a 192 kbps MP3 played in my computer using headphones versus a oringinal audio CD using a Disc Man.
MP3 players like the iPod can easily be upgraded to handle a much better format (still in R&D, it think) called MPEG 4.
No moving parts, has other functions like an address book and calendar.

[DWBass]

Originally posted by Joel


RE: MP3
lower quality (?) encoding compared to Mini Disc format. But like I said, I cant hardly tell the difference of a 192 kbps MP3 played in my computer using headphones versus a oringinal audio CD using a Disc Man.
MP3 players like the iPod can easily be upgraded to handle a much better format (still in R&D, it think) called MPEG 4.
No moving parts, has other functions like an address book and calendar. The iPod has a HD(5, 10 & 20gig) with an OS in it. Therefore, it does have a moving part. The website says it has no moving parts but HD's have to move to find data.

[DWBass]

Originally posted by Coypu


It sounds like something worth trying, a band did something similar once. It would be great if you could give it a listen, it sounds pretty much like how you described your idea. personal energy (http://galaxen.net/~coypu/musik/MX/pestilence%20-%20Personal%20Energy.mp3)

Okay, I gave a listen. Of course, I don't like the vocals! Aside from that it was listenable. I like my fusion a lot tighter and faster (i.e. Dave Weckl Band, Tom Coster). I felt that they were not very comfortable at what they were trying to acheive. You could tell they were way more comfortable during the unison sections. At one point it kinda sounded like Pat Metheny during one of his solo's using his guitar synth. I wouldn't mind the music so much if they didn't feel they had to add the vocals. The vocals have their place but not in this type of piece. I appreciate the tune though. Bear in mind that this is only MY opinion. I don't speak for anyone but myself.

Peace

[Coypu]

Originally posted by DWBass
Okay, I gave a listen. Of course, I don't like the vocals! Aside from that it was listenable. I like my fusion a lot tighter and faster (i.e. Dave Weckl Band, Tom Coster). I felt that they were not very comfortable at what they were trying to acheive. You could tell they were way more comfortable during the unison sections. At one point it kinda sounded like Pat Metheny during one of his solo's using his guitar synth. I wouldn't mind the music so much if they didn't feel they had to add the vocals. The vocals have their place but not in this type of piece. I appreciate the tune though. Bear in mind that this is only MY opinion. I don't speak for anyone but myself.

Peace

I can see where you are comming from and I understand that the vocals doesn't apeal much to you. They aren't exactly absolute top notch players either but they still do a pretty good job, I personally have heard ALOT worse. The guitarplayer in this band stopped playing guitar for 6 months after he heard Allan Holdsworth... Anyways, cool that you checked them out atleast, its more than I can say about most people here.

Have you heard Gorguts (nevermind the name, they music is very unique) yet? If not let me know because that band is in my view the best that have happened music for the last hundred years or so.

[jazzypaul]

I thought you weren't going to discuss Death Metal anymore...

[Coypu]

Originally posted by jazzypaul
I thought you weren't going to discuss Death Metal anymore...

Pestilence album Spheres is not death metal so don't worry.

[jazzypaul]

But Gorguts is.

[Coypu]

Originally posted by jazzypaul
But Gorguts is.

Well the 2 first albums surely are but Obscura and forward really is something else, not sure what to call it though, it both swings and plays the blues so maybe its jazz...

[jazzypaul]

Then post it, I'll tell you if it swings...

[Coypu]

Earthly Love (http://galaxen.net/~coypu/musik/MX/Gorguts%20-%20Earthly%20Love.mp3) , Important : Listen to the song more than once, it takes a while to get used to the sound so follow my advice on this one.

[DWBass]

Originally posted by Coypu
Earthly Love (http://galaxen.net/~coypu/musik/MX/Gorguts%20-%20Earthly%20Love.mp3) , Important : Listen to the song more than once, it takes a while to get used to the sound so follow my advice on this one. Now Coypu, do you honestly think that is jazz? Or are you just baiting us......again?? I sent you a few PM's. Read them, take them for whatever you get out of them. But if you really think that is jazz, or anywhere near jazz, then I really don't know what to think or say!! I believe we just tried a civil approach to engaging you in an effort to get this forum back to the adult like conversation it was meant to have but..........I don't know man! (Picture me throwing my hands up in the air in frustration!)





:(

[jazzypaul]

There was no swing there, man. Yet another reason to have you banned. Talk about jazz or split man. I really want you to hang, and get something out of this, but there is never any reason for you ever to post or talk about death metal here. It is a JAZZ forum.

[Coypu]

I would say that you can compare the music with some of Zorn's extremer works. I agree that it is not straight jazz but if you listened more than once they you can clearly hear that they play the blues, the feelings they bring out are exactly the same (for me atleast). The point was however not really that this was supposed to be jazz but rather that it isn't death metal which in my view this isn't. I would never had posted this song unless Paul ask me to do so sorry guys, I never met to offend you.

[DWBass]

Originally posted by Coypu
I would say that you can compare the music with some of Zorn's extremer works. I agree that it is not straight Jazz but if you listened more than once they you can clearly hear that they play the Blues, the feelings they bring out are exactly the same (for me at least). The point was however not really that this was supposed to be jazz but rather that it isn't death metal which in my view this isn't. I would never had posted this song unless Paul ask me to do so sorry guys, I never meant to offend you. No, they may have been using a blues form (unintentionally) but there is no Blues there. What you think is the Blues and what actually IS the Blues are 2 different things. Not DM? What's the difference? It isn't Jazz nor Blues!

[Coypu]

You are perfectly correct, I apologize and hope that you find it in your heart to forgive me.

[DWBass]

Coypu, I/We challenge you to actually post something relative!!

Please.................

[jazzypaul]

No, Coypu, I didn't ask you to post that. I asked you to post something that swings. In reference to Gorguts, you said...

Well the 2 first albums surely are but Obscura and forward really is something else, not sure what to call it though, it both swings and plays the blues so maybe its jazz...

To which I said...

Then post it, I'll tell you if it swings...

And then you posted it. Coypu, I know others have already asked Mike to ban you. You can now officially add me to that list. About 89% of the time, you do not bring anything relevant or positive to the table in a discussion about jazz. You poison our ears with music that is not jazz or even close. You poison our eyes with Anal Cunt lyrics that are offensive. The Holdsworth stuff that you like and the Zorn stuff you like are far removed from jazz. There are prog/rock and fusion boards more suited to your tastes, and the fact that you post here instead of anywhere else makes me think that you're trying to do something far more nefarious than just learn about jazz. Because anyone that does want to learn about jazz would sit back and read and learn. Instead, you spend way too much time making comments that you know will piss people off. The difference between you and Champjams is that Champ at least knows what she's talking about. I completely disagree with her, but she can attempt to back up what she says. All you can say is "Death Metal is faster than jazz," like you're a broken record. If you had any respect for this forum or the people here, you would back off. But everytime you post, you prove just how much you hate all of us, hate this forum and hate jazz. And to slap jazz in the face by saying that that song was even a distant relative of jazz? That was one of the biggest smacks in the face yet.

[3pointdeli]

jazz can take a slap in the face from time to time. it has endured far worse.