Practising scales

[ColdBuffet]

Well I'm learning all different types of scales and arpeggios (major, minor, harmonic minor, major modes, 7th chords) and I have a quick and simple question to ask. When practising these things should I play all the scales and arpeggios of ONE key first then move to the next? Or would it be more efficient to play the scales in ALL the keys then move onto the next scale?

At the moment, I'm doing the first way I listed, but I was just wondering if the latter way would be more beneficial.

Thanks.

[Slant]

CB,

Don't take this the wrong way, but, IMO, probably the best approach is to not worry about it so much. Practice what you feel like practicing w/ the intent that you will be a better musician because of it. As far as efficiency, and how much you'll get out of your time put in -- it's probably best not to cut deals w/ yourself. Just make sure that what you do practice you learn fully and to your highest standard. As time progresses, your standards will also progress.

[Jakeweiser]

Slant has a point.

My suggestion would be to choose a scale to master first before trying to encorporate everything at once. Learn those Major Scales in 12 keys perfectly before trying to learn everyone at once without really getting them. You cannot rush learning fundamental musical vocabulary like a scale etc. Take your time with them, in all keys and then move to the next.

I wouldn't worry about practicing modes so much.

[guitarjazz]

Andres Segovia said you should practice scales two hours a day. I doubt if most of us have that much time. Wish I did.
Joe Pass gave me a nice tip for making scale practice more musical. Play the scale up to a chord tone( like maj7) and then decend with chord tones only. Play(ascending) CDEFGAB then BGEC(descending). Then CDEFGABCD followed by DBGEC. Expand as needed.
Reverse this and play CEGB(up) followed by BAGFEDC(down). This works with any scale. The idea is to work toward playing lines instead of just running scales.

[bluenote82]

Andres Segovia said you should practice scales two hours a day. I doubt if most of us have that much time. Wish I did.
Joe Pass gave me a nice tip for making scale practice more musical. Play the scale up to a chord tone( like maj7) and then decend with chord tones only. Play(ascending) CDEFGAB then BGEC(descending). Then CDEFGABCD followed by DBGEC. Expand as needed.
Reverse this and play CEGB(up) followed by BAGFEDC(down). This works with any scale. The idea is to work toward playing lines instead of just running scales.



Andres Segovia was also someone who apparently didn't have a personal life. Nobody practices scales for two hours a day. If they do, then they'll never be good players. What's the point in running scales all day? There's more to music then scales.

[pallemino]

I don't see how practicing scales 2or more hours a session/day would make you a bad player, or affect your personal life. I spend about 4-5 hours a day practicing and about 1.5-2hrs of that is based around different scales and creating new ways to move through them. It's probably the most valuable part of my improvisational development. Knowing these things backward and sideways helps in every other aspect your musical understanding. Be it chordal playing, Transcribing, Aural skills, Transposing ideas ect..

So far as the personal life. If music is your profession or at the least, a strong passion. You do what you gotta do.

I admit, it leaves less time for other recreation most days. But knowing your instrument makes you a better musician. Better musicians get more gig's. More gigs = more time at the bar after a set having a good time (and getting paid for it) :D

[Slant]

I don't see how practicing scales 2or more hours a session/day would make you a bad player, or affect your personal life. I spend about 4-5 hours a day practicing and about 1.5-2hrs of that is based around different scales and creating new ways to move through them. It's probably the most valuable part of my improvisational development. Knowing these things backward and sideways helps in every other aspect your musical understanding. Be it chordal playing, Transcribing, Aural skills, Transposing ideas ect..

So far as the personal life. If music is your profession or at the least, a strong passion. You do what you gotta do.

I admit, it leaves less time for other recreation most days. But knowing your instrument makes you a better musician. Better musicians get more gig's. More gigs = more time at the bar after a set having a good time (and getting paid for it) :D

A thought for everyone: it's not about what you owe yourself, or what you owe society, or what you owe other musicians, or the tradition of jazz, or your family...or any of that crap. Also, this isn't a competition. The mere notion of "a personal life" would seem to indicate that you somehow owe something to yourself, as though you have to reserve a spot for yourself at the table. Forget it. Why parse all this crap out? Just let yourself go w/ the flow that every day brings you.

If you find that practicing for 6 hours straight works, then fine. If only 45 min. works for you, then fine. But, don't EVER expect that because you've followed a prescribed lesson plan from some "hero" that you'll somehow come out on top. And, don't EVER expect that becuase you practiced 6 hours a day for X no. of years straight the world somehow owes you some rec. NO WAY, JOSE. You are in for a rude awakening. Besides the basic fact that you can loose anything at any time, there is the calous reality that this world operates in large part on a who-knows-who basis.

Sometimes I get the feeling that the jazz musician "addiction" to practicing is in part born of that bogus "hard-work ethic" that we Americans delude ourselves with a lot of the time. We never stop to consider that said "ethic" was in large part beaten into us during the 19th century when a lot of factories were in need of 14-year-olds for steel casting, etc. (When you're hungry you will do a lot of things that otherwise seem out of the question.)

BUT, this is music!! This is about love, life, and deep reflection on the things that matter while in this bodily form.

End of rant.

[guitarjazz]

Segovia also said that if you didn't have strong nails you shouldn't bother playing guitar.

[Jeremy]

Let's remember that classical guitar is very different from jazz guitar. Andres Segovia's philosophies don't always apply to other styles of guitar.

[Phat Boi]

Segovia was on to something. I think two-three hours of technique/vocabulary practice is about right. I don't think he meant just major scales though. I definitely don't think he meant play them up and down in seconds either.


Here's my current routine.


Major Scales, All 12 keys.
Melodic Minor, All 12 Keys.
Harmonic Minor, All 12 Keys.
Wholetones
the 3 diminished scales.

I play them in seconds, then thirds, then fourths, then fifths, then sixths, then 7ths, then octaves. All with the metronome.
Then I play the Arpeggios.
Then I finish with the tetrachords.

Then I pick tunes and pick a position on the guitar and go through all the arpeggios in the tune in position. Then switch the position.


This is my scale routine. And if I don't know a scale I take time to learn ALL the notes by saying them outloud.

I also sing solefege with everything. I'm anal and one day it's gonna pay off.

[guitarjazz]

I go through one key a day. 12 days covers all the keys then back again. Gotta a family, sessions to play, gigs to go to, people to teach. If you have time to do all twelve everyday, more power to ya however sounds like you might be asking for a case of tendonitis.
The interval stuff and arpeggio stuff is great. Have you checked out Forward Motion by Hal Galper? It will change the way you practice all that stuff. Do a google search for hal galper forward motion and you’ll find some articles with the gist of it.

[BWV 1080]

Here is the full Segovia quote:
“The student who wishes to acquire a firm technique on the guitar should not neglect the patient study of
scales. If he practices them two hours a day he will correct faulty hand positions, gradually increase the
strength of the fingers, and prepare the joints for later speed studies…In one hour of scales may be
condensed many hours of arduous exercises which are frequently futile. The practice of scales enables
one to solve a greater number of technical problems in a shorter time than the study of any other
exercise.”

First, Segovia was hawking his own scale book :)

Seriously, Segovia's scales are mainly technique studies - they are not fingerings you would use for improv. His thought is that the two hours would give a beginning player the foundation for a solid technique. I do not think he intended for established players to follow that regimen. I have studied with several classical guitarists are a degree or two from Segovia and no one ever pushed the two hour regimen. Several established classical guitarists do no scales or exercises at all (like Christopher Parkening if I remember correctly) preferring to concentrate on actual music.

Once you can navigate the fretboard and have enough technique to express what you want, the returns from scale practice (other than for warmup) rapidly diminish.

[Phat Boi]

doing all 12 keys doesn't take THAT long even if play 8ths at 100bpm. I'm a student in a music school so I have to practice this way to keep up with everything. Tendonitis I think happens when you practice everything too fast and don't work absorb what you are learning. I like to practice technique about an hour a day and the rest of my time is practicing over tunes or just vocab.

[EdByrne]

Regarding tendonitis & otherwise straining:

It's hard to be rational sometimes when you are impatient to progress, but a little common sense is called for--on any instrument. I used to strain my lips all the time until I let them tell me when to break, & especially when I'm through for the day. Taking breaks also keeps you fresh, so you remain focused while in the act of practicing.

Also, check for your basic posture & positioning; avoid excessive movement. Learn those temporary shut-downs of tension when "playing" rests.

[guitarjazz]

Here is the full Segovia quote:
“The student who wishes to acquire a firm technique on the guitar should not neglect the patient study of
scales. If he practices them two hours a day he will correct faulty hand positions, gradually increase the
strength of the fingers, and prepare the joints for later speed studies…In one hour of scales may be
condensed many hours of arduous exercises which are frequently futile. The practice of scales enables
one to solve a greater number of technical problems in a shorter time than the study of any other
exercise.”

First, Segovia was hawking his own scale book :)

Seriously, Segovia's scales are mainly technique studies - they are not fingerings you would use for improv. His thought is that the two hours would give a beginning player the foundation for a solid technique. I do not think he intended for established players to follow that regimen. I have studied with several classical guitarists are a degree or two from Segovia and no one ever pushed the two hour regimen. Several established classical guitarists do no scales or exercises at all (like Christopher Parkening if I remember correctly) preferring to concentrate on actual music.

Once you can navigate the fretboard and have enough technique to express what you want, the returns from scale practice (other than for warmup) rapidly diminish.

You are probably right that old Andres was hawking his own book. He had to scrape together some extra cake for his crib overlooking the Mediterranean.
I like his book, not because it is complete and the final say on fingerings, but because it presents a comfortable solution for moving up and down the fingerboard as a apposed to solely across. They could be used for any style of music, improv or not. As a note, when you look at how many combinations of right hand fingerings he offers you can see why he might recommend the two hours.
When I practice these( for maybe 15 min.), I am working on: synchronizing my hands (at a very slow tempo), tone, and my time. I’ve been using a system for a couple of years developed by German guitarist Uwe Kropinski ,who wrote a book called Keeping in Time which has some interesting suggestions for using a metronome besides 2+4. Really, it’s a centering process as well as warm-up.
I know it’s a different instrument but J.J. Johnson’s son told me that J.J. would always practice the basics on his bone..long tones, scales.
Here's a nice link about practicing:
http://www.philmarkowitzjazz.com/practice.html

[EdByrne]

While both artists mentioned here, J. J. Johnson & Andres Segovia, are great & influential to say the very least, they roughly fall into a certain similar type: both adopted a basic 20th Century classical approach: They memorized their performances in advance. J. J. once made the statement that in jazz we create the illusion of spontaneity. For him it was a process of oral composition in advance that culminated in the same performance every time. Indeed, neither artist took any improvisational chances whatsoever in performance. I was struck, for example, by the fact that when J. J. came back after a 20-year-or-so hiatus, he was still playing the same improvisations he had recorded as far back as 35 years before.

This is by no means meant to deride either performer, but rather to make the point that it is far easier with that approach to focus on delivering flawlessly-executed presentations than it is when you take a lot of chances. It also allowed them to practice for consistency rather than for playing in the now, the latter of which involves very different--& more involved--strategies.

Another example of this in jazz is the Modern Jazz Quartet, who collectively published a similar statement as that of Johnson, in which they explained that the only time one improvises is the very 1st X one plays the tune. Therefore, they routinely recorded the 1st rehearsal run-through--& then memorized it.

There are a great many different styles to be found among public speakers. It is up to the individual to, once aware of this, decide which of these approaches to take, & then to prepare accordingly.

[guitarjazz]

Ed, did you ever read Chick Corea's essays in Keyboard Magazine entitled 'The Myth of Improvisation'?

[EdByrne]

Ed, did you ever read Chick Corea's essays in Keyboard Magazine entitled 'The Myth of Improvisation'?

No. Where can I find it (gotta go get Phil's book recs anyway)? What's his take (I guess the title says it)? Notwithstanding, I'm confident that CC has some interesting points. Can you give us a hint?

For me this issue is made clearer by comparing it to the English language. If I wish to nurture the spontaneous in performance, I have to have a lot of different ways to tell the story in my back pocket. The improvisation is comprised, then, of what I choose to say & what I choose to leave out on any given occasion.

It's up to the individual to decide to what degree (s)he wants to be spontaneous, & then master that presentation style--but of course there is no stylistic paradigm, no right or wrong--just personal preferance.

[guitarjazz]

Chick talked about how non-improvisers are under the impression that we just make this stuff up out of the blue. He talked about how he learned by copying Horace Silver and how much of improvising is rearranging things we already know. Wish I could find a reprint online.
With some of Chicks essays I feel like I have to wade through the L. Ron jargon but this essay was straight-ahead.
Your comparison to language is extremely well put.

[BWV 1080]

Regarding Chick's comments I think they apply equally to composition. Its really the same process. How much of Mozart and Haydn's music is assembled "licks"?

[EdByrne]

Regarding Chick's comments I think they apply equally to composition. Its really the same process. How much of Mozart and Haydn's music is assembled "licks"?

Absolutely. Improvisation is melted composition: Composition is frozen improvisation. All those guys did both.

[EdByrne]

Chick talked about how non-improvisers are under the impression that we just make this stuff up out of the blue. He talked about how he learned by copying Horace Silver and how much of improvising is rearranging things we already know. Wish I could find a reprint online.
With some of Chicks essays I feel like I have to wade through the L. Ron jargon but this essay was straight-ahead.
Your comparison to language is extremely well put.



I see, gj. I'd like to read it--& thanks.

[bluenote82]

I don't see how practicing scales 2or more hours a session/day would make you a bad player, or affect your personal life. I spend about 4-5 hours a day practicing and about 1.5-2hrs of that is based around different scales and creating new ways to move through them. It's probably the most valuable part of my improvisational development. Knowing these things backward and sideways helps in every other aspect your musical understanding. Be it chordal playing, Transcribing, Aural skills, Transposing ideas ect..

So far as the personal life. If music is your profession or at the least, a strong passion. You do what you gotta do.

I admit, it leaves less time for other recreation most days. But knowing your instrument makes you a better musician. Better musicians get more gig's. More gigs = more time at the bar after a set having a good time (and getting paid for it) :D


Actally, I don't know if you know this, but Bill Frisell and Pat Metheny NEVER practice. You know what they do? They grab a pencil and a sheet of muisc paper and start composing.

I don't practice that much either. Guitar is really mind over matter. I mean I think when you're younger it's important to practice your instrument. I know learning scales, chords, arpeggios, etc. are all important things, but I think as you get older that stuff just becomes not as important as just playing music with other people.

Playing with other musicians is much more important then becoming a virtuoso or at least it is to me. I don't have any desire to be a virtuoso. There are always people better than me on the guitar, so what I have to do is work hard at what it is I'm trying achieve on the guitar.

I know my limitations as a player, so for me, it's just a matter playing with as many musicians I can play with and creating music that somehow represents life's experiences.

[jazzfingers19]

I can get the above....I'd add I think it is important to practice functionally...that means scales, arps and all that. You can just practice stuff independently but if you don't apply it you more hard pressed to get that into your playing....the above might qualify as just playing through tunes with a pupose of exeecuting certain things.

[JonR]

Actally, I don't know if you know this, but Bill Frisell and Pat Metheny NEVER practice. You know what they do? They grab a pencil and a sheet of muisc paper and start composing.Wow, this makes me feel a whole lot better!
The only times I play my instrument are (a) gigs, (b) rehearsals for gigs, (c) teaching, and (d) when composing.

Mind you I also read somewhere that Metheny practised 8 hours a day as a teenager...

I guess you eventually get that compulsion out of your system. (I certainly did out of mine... :rolleyes: )
I don't practice that much either. Guitar is really mind over matter. I mean I think when you're younger it's important to practice your instrument. I know learning scales, chords, arpeggios, etc. are all important things, but I think as you get older that stuff just becomes not as important as just playing music with other people.

Playing with other musicians is much more important then becoming a virtuoso or at least it is to me. I don't have any desire to be a virtuoso. There are always people better than me on the guitar, so what I have to do is work hard at what it is I'm trying achieve on the guitar.

I know my limitations as a player, so for me, it's just a matter playing with as many musicians I can play with and creating music that somehow represents life's experiences.Absolutely.

I suppose one might argue that more practice would dispose of many of those limitations, improving your ability to represent those life experiences...

But hey, I'm right with you, brother... :)

Maybe it's because the music I generally play is not technically that demanding. I like popular music, in all senses (so, er I don't play much jazz actually...:shrug: ). Virtuoso playing tends to go over most people's heads. At least, for me, the rewards of it are not worth the effort of achieving it. (And as you say, there will always be people better than me. It's not a competition.) For me, music is about having a good conversation with like minds, and giving a crowd a good time. I'm not interested in refining the "art" - except maybe in theory, at arms length - or in showing off how clever I am, or how much better than the next guy I am. (Well, not enough to practice anyhow.)

[jazzfingers19]

I think Pat and Bill are in a way different world than most. That might be why they don't practice...if that is even true. Listen to their records especially pat you can hear the new ideas in his playing; they just don't appear. Same goes for the compositions you have to shead that stuff some where.
I am sure they play through tunes and conciously try to execute new ideas which can be considered practicing just on a higher level.

I agree the better you get the less people will want to play with you...or you with them

[Jay Norem]

I agree the better you get the less people will want to play with you...or you with them

Never heard that one before.

[jazzfingers19]

Maybe it was dumb Jay.....I should have said in my expierence. Granted I am now pro and still young. I'm not an Asshole; but I can't get my buddies to includue me in jams anymore or anything...old high school friends etc. I just want to have fun...don't show off...not condescending. Everytime I ask why they didn't call me I get "dude you would have thought we sucked."

Maybe so; but I wouldn't have said it...I would have had tons of fun and drank a few beers.

The "you with them" part sounds snooty but it isn't. It only means that I've worked super hard and I'm not going to go play a free bar gig with people that just play on the weekend, especially if it eats time from me doing something that paid. If that sounds snooby I appologize

[Jakeweiser]

if anyone thinks Metheny doesn't practice his ass off every day still they're kidding themselves.

People who aren't willing to play with those on a higher level then they are will never be truly a great musician.

[thedwork]

if anyone thinks Metheny doesn't practice his ass off every day still they're kidding themselves.

People who aren't willing to play with those on a higher level then they are will never be truly a great musician.


:yeahthat: on both points.


my greatest teacher used to tell me, "If you're easily the best player in the group, find another group."

[jazzfingers19]

I agree with the points Jake.

I'm not saying I want to play with people not good to be good...I'm talking old buddies from high school jamming like back in the day if not for fun and to have a few beers.


I too thought the Metheny/Frisell not practicing thing was wierd. Anyone's kidding themselves to think anyone on that level doesn't practice to get new concepts into their playing.

[EdByrne]

if anyone thinks Metheny doesn't practice his ass off every day still they're kidding themselves.

People who aren't willing to play with those on a higher level then they are will never be truly a great musician.

Right on! :clap: :yeahthat: :clap:

[Jakeweiser]

it's widly known that Metheny is constantly practicing. I was told once that he arrives at the venue and practices backstage for an hour before soundcheck, which is a 2hr rehearsal, practices until diner, practices up until Hit time and often is backstage after practicing because something didin't go right. Metheny said in an interview that I read that he finds the music that he writes very challenging and if he doesn't work out the changes in a very calculated formulaic way then he never feels like he can do anything on them worth playing. Thus he loops changes in his hotel rooms and sheds them like crazy. Paraphrased, but those are his words

Oh almost every video concert I have seen when he walks out on stage he is carrying his guitar from the back stage greenroon rather then having it on stage waiting for him.

I know for a fact from very reliable sources that Bill Frisell practices hours every day when he's not traveling, and even when he is.

Anyway point being of that, all the masters practice, that's how they became masters, and it is part of their make up as a human, they are devoted, so they practice trying to reach new levels of ability. I bet Sonny Rollins, who is about the biggest name in Jazz alive still practices all the time.

As for the playing with oher people.

I always felt floating around for years as a player until I decided it was time to get my ass kicked on an every day basis, and that has been what's pushed me to the level I am at now (whatever that is) and it wasn't practicing in the practice room, it was jam sessions, combos, and all those things to push me to want to be a better MUSICIAN rather then a better Guitarist, which was all practicing was doing for me. Granted I still work on being a better guitarist every day, but my goal is to be a kick ass musician.

[BWV 1080]

The Metheny anecdote points out what I have noticed from great players, which is they practice hard and smart. Note Pat does not do hours of rote scales - he identifies specific things in his playing that he wants to improve on then isolates them and practices what he needs to practice.

[Phat Boi]

I heard Eric Dolphy would practice in between sets and at parties he would be chilling practicing while everyone was drinking.

[bluenote82]

I agree with the points Jake.

I'm not saying I want to play with people not good to be good...I'm talking old buddies from high school jamming like back in the day if not for fun and to have a few beers.


I too thought the Metheny/Frisell not practicing thing was wierd. Anyone's kidding themselves to think anyone on that level doesn't practice to get new concepts into their playing.


Both Metheny and Frisell has said in interviews that they don't practice.

Whether you believe it or not is up to you, but Metheny actually has said this numerous times and has said it in the 2002 March issue of Jazziz magazine. Frisell has said this right on this website (All About Jazz). It's called a Fireside Chat With...Bill Frisell. Read it and believe it.

[bluenote82]

Well I guess I don't practice as much as I should, but I do practice mentally alot. I hear something in my head and hum it and try and imagine where it would on the fretboard.

I guess you can say I practice all the time. In the car, at work, when I'm eating, because I'm constantly hearing ideas in my head all the time and I actually hear how they translate to the guitar.

This may be a form of practicing that I'm not aware of...I really don't know, but when I do actually play and especially with other people, it's not a competition or a race to the finish line, it's just three or four guys having fun working on new music or playing standards or whatever. I always try and keep some level of fun, but I also want to play better and better and just become a better overall musician.

[bluenote82]

People who aren't willing to play with those on a higher level then they are will never be truly a great musician.


I'll add to this statement, if a musician doesn't listen to jazz that is on a higher level, they won't be a a great musician. Listening is just as important as playing.

If you don't listen, then you won't learn.

[JonR]

Both Metheny and Frisell has said in interviews that they don't practice.

Whether you believe it or not is up to you, but Metheny actually has said this numerous times and has said it in the 2002 March issue of Jazziz magazine. Frisell has said this right on this website (All About Jazz). It's called a Fireside Chat With...Bill Frisell. Read it and believe it.Here's the quote:
AAJ: Do you spend much time composing?

BF: Well, I think more over the last, oh, boy, even maybe the last twenty years or so, when I have time to sit down, that's what I do, rather than practicing the guitar. I know I'm a guitar player and I have the guitar around all the time, but I don't sit there and practice scales and things. I used to be more concerned with just the instrument. Now, it's more about just trying to write or trying to create a context for my band. That's all I do, really, is write, I guess, one way or another.My suspicion is he's being a little disingenuous there. (And he was asked specifically about composing, rather than being asked to expand on what or how - or if - he practised at all, or whether he considered the act of composing to be a kind of practice.)
He may not be practising according to a disciplined regime, IOW - as some of us would understand it - but it sounds like he's always playing, working stuff out.

I guess the truth here (for both him and Metheny) is a bit of both. They improve because they just keep playing. They're constantly challenging themselves; perhaps more in a composition or improvisation context (ideas rather than technique), but technique is being addressed regardless.
At the same time, there will doubtless be occasions when they (Metheny at least) DO focus on technique for some specific task. Otherwise, conscious technical practice just may not be a regular part of what they do.

So while they "don't practice" in the sense of spending hours going over scale patterns, they "do practice" in the sense of addressing musical issues and contexts.

(Just my interpretation of the evidence presented so far... ;) )

It would certainly not be a logical conclusion for a less able player to say "hey, Frisell says he doesn't practice, so why shouldn't I just sit on my ass and drink beer all day... " :)

[guitarjazz]

It’s a ploy. He’s(Frisell) obviously trying to weaken the competition.

[Jakeweiser]

Metheny and Frisell might not call what they do practice, but they do, just practicing on a different level then I or anyone on this forum might. They don't need to practice the technical requirements we might, or the other things we work on. They work on purely improvising compositionally and conceptually. Every time they touch their instrument they are practicing and performing, finding new and exciting things. This to me is practicing for those who don't need to sit down with a metronome every day and work on patterns. They know all their patterns, and once I learn them (if I ever do) then I won't be "practicing" them and will be practicing bolder things. As he said in that interview, no he doesn't work on this instrument as a focus, he's working on Concepts on a higher level, but it's still practice.

Especially if you look at Practice for what it really is, Ear Training

That is, on a fundamental the same thing.... striving to improve and I am pretty sure that listening to the discography of a man like Bill Frisell, he's always looking for something new to do.

Men like this also have the gift of instant application of their ideas. So when they sit down to play their instruments when they find something they're able to imploy it, while someone of lesser talent or skill might need months of work on it. T hey already have put the months in.

So when they say they don't practice, I'm pretty sure that they practice, but don't call it practice, but fundamentally that's what they are doing. And since I've seen and read interviews otherwise that they discuss their practice routine then they probably go through a variety of phases perhaps of practice vs no practice. Who's to know. I'll ask around to see if Frisell still practices today, and we'll see what the latest is on the guy :D

[JonR]

^^ :yeahthat:
nice post.

[cillit bang]

My theory of the masters is that they play all the time.
(or 'practise' whatever -it's just a word)
What to me would soon become a drag

And crucially ..........they don't find this to be work
they love to play and develop all the time cos it is fun to them.

Man basically they're obsessed

And that is the gift , not an inate difference from us in ability
but that to them it is not work , its fun , a blast.

Pat Martino talks about music and guitar being a toy to him that he plays with every day.
Pat lost his ferocious technique after a brain operation ,
and then got it all back again from scratch !
To learn music/guitar to that kind of level twice in one life
is incredable to me but to Pat it just wasn't work

Some more of them
eg Oscar Peterson , Prince , Hendrix , Mozart , Bird , Clifford Brown etc etc

[cillit bang]

Hmmm ....... velly interesting

To separate this music thing into two :-

a) the music that communicates feelings to you
(some kid singing can do this easily with almost no technique)

b) amazing facility in music eg
Wayne Krantz , Chris Potter , John Abercromby

Of course when a and b coincide its really great ...........

Anyway the b) thing ...........
this is a skill like any other, eg. Juggling or Mental arithmatic
or whatever , and MUST be practised to be kept 'up to speed'

I think what Metheny and Frizell meant is that they get enough
'practise' by the by of doing all their normal playing composing
everyday to keep their chops up to speed.

Also as people mature they're much more interested in doing b)
to communicate a)
ie not for b)'s their own sake

When you're a kid you show off more

Feel free to dissagree Bluenote !

Cheers Jem

[bluenote82]

I think what Metheny and Frizell meant is that they get enough
'practise' by the by of doing all their normal playing composing
everyday to keep their chops up to speed.

Cheers Jem


The only thing I disagree with is your spelling of Bill Frisell's name. It's Frisell not Frizell.

[thedwork]

The only thing I disagree with is your spelling of Bill Frisell's name. It's Frisell not Frizell.


and abercrombie.



beat ya to it jake :wink2:

[cillit bang]

At least I got Pat Methaney rite:gavel:

[JonR]

At least I got Pat Methaney rite:gavel:Mmm, Pat Methaney, what a gas...
:rolleyes:

[IanS]

Going back to the first few posts and Segovia‘s 2 hours a day … to me that doesn’t seem too much at all for practicing scales. Maybe some guys here have got so good they’ve forgotten about specific practice regimes, but 2 hours goes very quickly.

Like most guys, I try to practice several different things each day, eg a couple of hours on scales, a couple of hours on improv., couple of hours picking exercises‘, etc. … but less than 2 hours on each section just goes nowhere for me. Guess everyone’s different.

I’ve no idea what Metheny or Frissel do & I’ve never really listened to those guys. But musicians are notorious for saying all sorts of things, or at least printed interviews attribute all sorts of statements …maybe the musicians never really said half the things lol. Though on his Hot Licks DVD Jimmy Bruno does say you need to practice 8 to 10 hours a day (which is quite a lot imho.).

Ian.

[EdByrne]

At least I got Pat Methaney rite:gavel:

Yeah, but did you get him right?:confused2

[cillit bang]

I'm sure I'd have trouble getting him right
:guitar: