The film "Bird"

[Darina]

Was anybody else disappointed in this film? I'd always heard it was good but it left me completely flat. It wasn't very real, didn't look or feel real. It looked like a film about black people all dolled up for white people.

And no mention of Miles!!!!

[Claude]

I've seen it some years ago and wasn't impressed either. I had read the "Bird lives" biography before and found that the movie was relying on drug and racial clichés too much.

But maybe I wasn't very impressed also because it was during a "jazz night" at a cinema and "Round midnight" and "Jazz on a summers day" were shown on the same evening. Compared to those films starring "original" jazz musicians, Bird just seemed like a standard biographical Hollywood movie.

[SatinDoll]

I also was disappointed by the film about Bird. "Round Midnight" was much better. And considering the fact, that Dexter was quite ill at the time of the making of that film, he was surprisingly strong.

[gdogus]

I don't think Bird is a very good film either. There are two possible virtues in a biographical picture: historical accuracy or aesthetic beauty; Eastwood's film doesn't have much of either. I'm more than okay with taking historical license for the sake of a film's aesthetic integrity, but nothing works too well in Bird.

Having said that, though, I do admire Eastwood's having made the film in the first place. He knows and loves jazz, and as I understand it the film was a very personal project for him. How many directors or studios would push for and finance a feature-length, major-release jazz film? So mad props to Clint for the intent and the effort, anyway.

[Darina]

I say do a remake and get Spike Lee to direct it... or someone...

[Darina]

Well, Spike could perhaps do a better job than Clint... but what I mean is that I'd like to see a film like this where black people are actually black ... know what I mean? It was all so UNblack.

[ATR]

Dark and muddled, but I admire Clint Eastwood and I've enjoyed a lot of his movies. I think Unforgiven is the best and Mystic River is overrated. Agreed that Spike Lee can't do this justice either seeing how badly he dropped the ball with Mo' Better. I hope his dad told him how awful that picture was, and anti-semitic to boot. My favorite jazz films are Straight No Chaser and G-Man, both are documentaries. Didn't particularly like Round Midnight either, but at least it had a real musician in it who was also a pretty good actor. My recollection of The Benny Goodman Story isn't all that great, but I believe that one was watchable, and the Scorcese musical with DeNiro and Liza Minelli rivals Eastwood's attempt at the very least. I think for Bird filmakers have missed their great casting opportunity because Arthur Blythe may now be a bit too old to play him. Everyone I know says he's a dead ringer for Parker.

[ATR]

Thanks for straightening us out on The Benny Goodman Story. Sorry to have given it even a lukewarm recommendation. Hollywood has not done well by jazz as a rule, and that's the important thing to remember. Even with a well meaning, talented director like Clint Eastwood something gets lost in translation. I would like to add a recommendations for Last of the Blue Devils and A Great Day in Harlem. Again, these are documentaries. The former is about the music out of Kansas City and the latter about the famous Esquire photograph.

[Saundra Hummer]

Hi once more!

If I remember it like it really was, Clint used to come into the Lighthouse, usually sit in the front, or second row, left of the sax players, and was a pretty intense listener.

Maybe this is what he was seeing, the drugs being the influence, maybe that was what he was looking for, what the drugs were doing to these guys!

Me, I don't know, why, but in only one instance with a trumpet player did I look to see where the drugs were taking him. With Charlie, I looked to see where his soul was taking us, and it was an amazing trip,

[Hardbop]

I've gotta respectfully disagree here. I think both BIRD and MO' BETTER BLUES are terrific films.

Forest Whitaker does a great job essaying Bird; didn't he get an Academy Award nom for his performance? Diane Venora was terrific as Chan. Actually, the source Eastwood used for Bird was Ross Russell's book/bio on Bird. That book has been maligned -- by none other than budding Bird expert/scholar Stanley Crouch -- but that said I think the film worked even if there is some question regarding the veracity of Russell's book. Eastwood was not making a documentary here. It was a fiction film and he's allowed to take liberties with the truth for dramatic purposes.

Meanwhile, I think Spike Lee's 'MO BETTER BLUES is way, way underrated and it one of Spike's better films. This is one of those films that actually gets better each time I see it. I love the interplay in the band with and the egos between the Washington and Snipes characters. I particularly liked the characterizations of Giancarlo Esposito and his French girlfriend and Bill Nunn's performance as the bassist. Finally, Jeff Watts acquits himself quite well playing a drummer. And Cynda Williams was great as the singer/love interest.

The music in the film is flat out terrific. I can't remember if it was Bill Lee or Terence Blanchard, who actually played Denzel's trumpet parts, who did the score. 'MO BETTER BLUES is also a terrific looking film.

[PDEE]

I think it's difficut to make a Jazz based movie , other than documentaries, but especially biographies, that jazz followers like.

We all have our own ideas about our heroes.

I didn't think Bird was so great, but I do think Clint tried quite hard. Lets face it Drugs were a major part of Parker's life and to overly down play them would also have caused an uproar..
I guess Pres had little influence on Billie's life.. he wasn't even hinted at in Lady Sings.

Clint I think tried for a certain amount of detail.

There is an opening sequence of baby bird on a pony that is black and white that is taken directly from a childhood photo of Bird.. that attention to detail somewhat impressed me.

But my favorite piece of Jazz Movie fiction, is most surely THE GIG.. mentioned above by Chris. No pretention, good story about a group of semi pro's. Well worth seeking out.

[gdogus]

For my money, the worst jazz film ever has to be Amadeus. I mean, not a lick of jazz in it, y'know?!

:mad2:

[gdogus]

:D :) ;) ;) :) :D

[clifton]

I liked "Bird" a lot, despite its flaws. It was beautifully acted, and there was plenty of Bird's horn on the sound track. It also was very evocative, with a sense of place and atmosphere, the urgency of post-WWII New York. My problem with "Bird" is that Eastwood missed the forest for the trees. He was so intent on getting the details right that he didn't adequately portray the revolutionary sweep of bebop as a movement, or Parker's genius as one of the architects of that movement. But "Bird" has many virtues, and I've probably seen it twenty times. I didn't like "Mo' Better Blues", however. I know Spike Lee meant his film to be a response to the portrayals of jazz musicians in "Bird" and "Round Midnight". He didn't want to show musicians as junkies and alcoholics. But in my view, Lee's musicians are little more than foul-mouthed homeboys, and I thought his club owners were a vicious anti-Semitic stereotype. "Round Midnight" is the best jazz film IMHO.

[maygar]

I think Bird was not an attempt at historical accuracy, that is not what cinema is for, it was not a documentary; it was an attemt at portraying a time, an atmosphere, and the angels and demons that may have inhabited Parker. In that context, I thought it successful and respectful. And the use of the original music was very well done.

[Quatermass]

I didn't think Bird was that good either, out of the few jazz films I have seen, I have to say I prefer that episode of the twilight zone (Passage for Trumpet, i think it was called.)

[Saundra Hummer]

About the film, "Bird," I didn't go to see it, or rent it, as I have my own impressions of Charlie Parker that I didn't want influenced or changed by it. I think that Forrest is a great, talented actor, that is as capable as anyone of playing him. It is just that at the time it came out, I started to go and see it, but then the more I thought about it, I decided against it, not that I won't change my mind one day. It is just hard to explain, I have my opinion of him, my feelings about him, which run deep, having seen him a lot, and knowing him slightly. I had an admiration for him, even though I knew he was being destroyed by the drugs that have destroyed so many. I found him to be a kind soul, a lover of life, and his music, and I saw enough of the tragedy of it to not want someone elses view of him, change mine.

I know that movies are movies, and "artistic license" is an important tool, but for me, real life influenced my views, and I don't want to clutter them up.

I don't know what it is about this man, and my feelings, as with others I want to see and read about them, I would like to see and read more about Miles Davis, Dave Bruebeck, Wes Montgemery, and so on, but with Charlie, I am careful about who I listen to about him. I like seeing and hearing Stan Levey's stories about their time together, as I know he is right on about what he says, and how he says it.

If my impressions tend to make someone believe that I condoned his drug use, believe me, that is not my way of thinking, as I saw him in his throes of agony that only about 5 of us saw, Stan Levey being one of the people, and if you could have seen the total devestation that he went through, there is no way that I condone any drug use, by him, or anyone. I have watched it kill several good friends and it is a curse, not a good thing at all.

[clifton]

Clint Eastwood is often one to take risks when he makes a movie, and "Bird" was no exception. He should be applauded for taking a risk with "Bird", and I like how the film showed Dizzy's serious side.

[Darina]

Well now see.... I thought the drug abuse and alcoholism problems were played way down in Bird. But I guess I had just finished reading Miles' very gritty Autobiography.

The attention to detail does stand in the way of being able to tell more of the real story... the music, the development and history of it. And like I said, despite this attention to detail, the sets and all look so fake to me, so glossy.

I do belive Clint has real affection for Jazz but something went wrong with this project. For me.

Nice music though.

[Darina]

Originally posted by clifton
Clint Eastwood is often one to take risks when he makes a movie, and "Bird" was no exception. He should be applauded for taking a risk with "Bird", and I like how the film showed Dizzy's serious side.

Oh yes, i loved the Dizzy scenes. Especially the one on the beach....

[kdd]

I liked Bird too, thought it was a strong, well made film but it worked better for me if I looked at it as a fictional film about a fictional sax player. Some of the club scenes using Bird's solos were very exiciting to me. I have to second Chris A's recommendation of 'The Gig", funny stuff and according to a musician friend of mine, dead on.

[Saundra Hummer]

Originally posted by Darina
Oh yes, i loved the Dizzy scenes. Especially the one on the beach....

Like I have said, haven't seen it, but what's not to love about Dizzy!