SACD player help

[Topographic Oceans]

I've been reading all of your posts and want to know what player to buy and where to buy it. I need an upgrade anyway. I don't need 5.1 sound or a dvd player. Just something that is a cd/sacd hybrid that's uder $500. Also, what's the deal with the 24/96? Will the cd option on the player have it? Any help is appreciated.
Victor

[Kevin Bresnahan]

About the only player "under $500" that I could recommend is the one I have: the Pioneer Elite DV-45A. Great SACD sound (and true DSD all the way... don't let anyone tell you otherwise) as well as exceptional regular CD playback. As a bonus, it will also play back DVD movies, DVD-Audio discs and CD-Rs filled with mp3 files. Before I had this machine, I had a "cheapie" Sony. The SACD playback was fine but the regular CD playback was terrible!

Regarding your other questions:
1) All SACDs, even multi-channel SACDs must have a stereo-only mix. It's part of the SACD standard (for now?). I do not have a multi-channel set-up in place yet. The Pioneer player has a setting to make it read the stereo layer.

2) 24/96 stands for "24 Bit 96 Kilohertz". Regular CD players cannot playback in 24/96 mode. This playback mode is usually part of any machine that plays DVD movies. DVD movie audio is usually 24/96. However, don't confuse DVD video with DVD-Audio, an audio-only, high resolution DVD. DVD-Audio can be as much as 24/192.

Later,
Kevin

[Topographic Oceans]

Thank you for the detailed response. Actually, yesterday I went for a standard player. The Music Hall CD-25. I got frustrated trying to find a player, questioning the future of this media. Not to mention the player someone recommended, a Sony ES 222 is discontinued, which can't be good either. Vinyl will always be the best anyway.
Victor

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Well Victor, I could just respond with some other blanket statement about vinyl but I won't. Don't judge the sound of SACD or DVD-Audio until you have heard it and compared it to other media. You may feel that "Vinyl will always be the best anyway", however, I do not agree with that at all... certainly not when compared to SACD. I think you missed out on a great opportunity to hear some great high resolution sounds.

Later,
Kevin

[JPW]

Originally posted by Kevin Bresnahan
however, I do not agree with that at all... certainly not when compared to SACD. I think you missed out on a great opportunity to hear some great high resolution sounds.
Quite right. Vinyl sucks. Please sell ALL your old vinyl NOW (especially mint original Bluenote - which I will be happy to take for *recycling* purposes).

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Originally posted by JPW
Quite right. Vinyl sucks. Please sell ALL your old vinyl NOW (especially mint original Bluenote - which I will be happy to take for *recycling* purposes).

I'm glad to see we are in agreement. :)

BTW, which SACD player do you have? Obviously if you're into good sound and reading this thread asking about SACD, you must have a player, right? I am very happy with my system right now... except this month I antipate upgrading my amp. I am thinking about going with a Denon 3803 receiver to take advantage of the SACD and DVD-Audio multi-channel option.

As for any old vinyl... Sorry, I "recycled" my old vinyl years ago. They were rock and roll, not Jazz, as I was not into Jazz back then. Funny thing is, the guy I gave them to put them all in his basement beause he didn't have a turntable any more. His basement flooded and all the records got ruined. They are all loooong gone now.

Later,
Kevin

[Topographic Oceans]

I'm sorry I missed out on sacd as well. I was curious and have heard good things. I must have about 1000 cd's anyway and really don't feel like double-dipping on the same albums I already have. I don't buy much new jazz or even rock. I'm sorry for the "blanket" response on vinyl as well. I don't hate cd's or any other digital genre, but I feel that digital recordings sound too synthetic. Older recordings were recorded analog, thus the vinyl maintains true to the original master tapes. Besides, tracking down vinyl can be fun!

[Kevin Bresnahan]

That's cool Victor. I was hoping I didn't come across too stiff. I stopped getting all riled about about the analog versus digital stuff a long time ago. Heck, 20 years back, I'd be going at it all over the place if they had the Internet back then! :)

FWIW, I have a turntable and I do still play a few Jazz records every now & then. The Denon AVR 3803 has a phono input too so I may even get another turntable to hook up to that beast.

Later,
Kevin

[JPW]

Afraid I have nothing more fancy than a basic Pioneer DV747, a universal player, which is mostly used to play DVDs. My (much more expensive) Teac CD player stomps all over it for CD playback (IMHO) and my Rega turntable will frequently stomp all over the Teac.
I have very little SACD (and no "remasters"), and the little Pioneer is apparently not good enough to use to make a judgement on the merits or other wise of this format, anyway. As has been mentioned before, there simply isn't the software available anyway.
The judgements are very much software dependent. One thing for sure, as far as BN goes vinyl kills CD stone dead to my ears.

-----------edited to add----------------

For anyone looking for a good cheap SACD /CD player, Pioneer have recently introduced the (I think it's called) DV600 universal player.
Apparently this is a really good player and costs a miserly $300 or so. A bargain I'd say.

[Lonson]

Here's a newly introduced modified player that has me interested, as I love the equipment from this builder:

http://www.decware.com/SACD/sacd.htm

[shawn·m]

Lon, nice to see you’re considering getting into SACD. I think you'll love it. Wish I could comment more on the equipment, but your rig is a step above mine anyway.

[JPW]

I really don't think SACD is a step up to anywhere in particular. If you like jazz from 20+ years ago and don't have access to the masters, then vinyl is the way to go in terms of quality, price and software availability.
Well produced CDs can sound very good, badly produced CDs (and badly produced anything) can sound very bad. I have lots of CDs and all music currently being produced is available on CD, so CD playback is were my digital buck goes.
And what is the point of sticking tubes on the output stage of a DVD player...
Get a better player to start with: one with better powersupply and laser / transport mech.
I bet they sell a few of those, though.:rolleyes:
All IMHO.
Maybe my view of SACD has been tainted by the really awful music that I've heard being played on the format.

[shawn·m]

Originally posted by JPW
And what is the point of sticking tubes on the output stage of a DVD player...

Some prefer tubes to solid state since tubes are said to render digital with analog warmth and detailing. I wouldn’t know since the last tubes I heard were as a kid in my parents’ 1940s console.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Originally posted by Lonson
Here's a newly introduced modified player that has me interested, as I love the equipment from this builder:

http://www.decware.com/SACD/sacd.htm

Lon, why does all the writing say "Pioneer" and the picture is a Sony? I think starting with a Pioneer is a better idea since their standard CD playback is better at this price point. Also, Pioneer's transport has been described as bulletproof.

Later,
Kevin

And for JPW, if you really stand behind your statement that "I really don't think SACD is a step up to anywhere in particular", I don't think we'll be conversing about audio too much. Even my tin ears can tell that SACD is a step in the right direction where digital is concerned.

[JPW]

Originally posted by Kevin Bresnahan

And for JPW, if you really stand behind your statement that "I really don't think SACD is a step up to anywhere in particular", I don't think we'll be conversing about audio too much. Even my tin ears can tell that SACD is a step in the right direction where digital is concerned.
Fair enough. IMO whatever SACD's merits, we won't be talking about it very much anyway, as it is a Dodo format.

[Lonson]

The Pioneer writing is just a glitch because he also sells a modded Pioneer product (not an SACD machine) and he has a bad link in there.

Also, I'm glad he's not doing a Pioneer because most of the Pioneers at this pricepoint convert the DSD to PCM before playback. I know yours doesn't but yours was more costly a base product.

[Lonson]

Shawn, I'm not sure I am ready to go into SACD. For one reason I just spent more money than I have really on one of Decware's new EL34 Monoblocks. It will be a while before I'm buying another component! What tempts me about this machine is the output section that Steve has added with its own power supply; Steve Deckert's tube output stages make amazing sound. BUT this does not have an adjustable volume output nor a detachable power cord, two things that I want to have in an SACD source actually. (Currently I am using a Dynaco cd player with a tubed preamped out put, so I can run straight into my amps; makes for very clear sound!) So. . . when I have time I'm going to research players and see what I can afford that I want. . . .

[shawn·m]

Lon do not, I repeat, Do Not demo Analog Production’s Saxophone Colossus or Sony’s Miles Smiles SACDs. You may have to cast your budget and other concerns aside. I suspect the same would be true were I to hear today’s tube equipment (especially since I have Magnolia Hi-Fi credit).

[Lonson]

I've actually heard the Miles Smiles. Very nice, but it hasn't escalated my program any. The DSD cd I have of this sounds great on my system, and I'm still being patient. I'm about a week away from a new pair of EL34 single-ended monoblock amps from Decware, which will put me out of the audio equipment buying market for a spell!

It was vintage gear that made me give up solid state, a 1959 EICO integrated stereo amp I have. . . and finding Decware and getting their products cemented the deal! I'm not going back to solid state without a fight! A do or DIE fight!:cool: