Romantic Revolutionary

[Andy D]

I have just finished reading Robert Rosenstone's book on the American radical John Reed. I have long admired Reed's ideas on society etc. Ever since I saw the film 'Reds', and I read Norm Chomsky's " Deterring Democracy" I have been interested in American radicalism

So who are/is your top 'American' radical?

Regards

Andy 'X' Duggan:wink2:

[Bev Stapleton]

Crazy Horse

[Andy D]

Is this the backing group for Neil Young?

:)

Regards

Andy D.

[Tenorman]

Wasn't it an Osmonds hit in the 70s??:D

[Bev Stapleton]

Originally posted by Andy D
Is this the backing group for Neil Young?

I only chose Crazy Horse because I couldn't spell Jer... Ger... Gironim... oh, I give up!

Thought about Tom Paine but he was from Thetford! I've been to Thetford. It's not remotely romantic. Or revolutionary. Or American, come to that!

[kenny weir]

Thelonious Monk

[Saundra Hummer]

Not a radical politico, but a real hero to the working class, especially our Mexican brothers. Caeser Chavez. He stepped up to the plate and made a difference, with methods (for the most part) that are to be admired. He did all of this for his fellow workers, not for his own self agrandizement.

We have all benefited from his work, especially when you consider the sanitation aspects alone.

Sitting in a cafe one afternoon, I was next to a booth with several loxal farmers. They raised grapes, peaches, and almonds, and they were discussing the farm labor issue. One of the men said, sure he could pay higher wages, bring in sanitation facilities, but that would mean his children would have to go to a less expensive college, and his wife wouldn't be buying the new pink Thunderbird every year, and that their vacations would be to less expensive resorts.

My mother in law ended up marrying one of those men, so I know very well what he could afford and not afford, Triips to the Artic circle, Hawaii, all across the United States, and numerous trips to San Francisco, Las Vegas, Arizona, and Washington.

Caeser had a right to expect more from their employers, as they certainly weren't going to go broke paying more, and they didn't. They continue to prosper, even though they had to pay a decent wage to their workers. Didn't hurt them in the least, but you would have thought that they would die having to do so.

[Andy D]

Reed was involved in the Mexican Revolution, well at least he reported on the War. He had a close association with Francisco 'Pancho' Villa the Mexican rebel leader. Reed was aware that Mexico was undergoing two 'revolutions' at the same time, one political and one agrarian. In many ways he understood and reported on the unequal relationship between the US and Mexico.

I guess some things never change ;)

Regards

Andy D.

[WestCoast Ghost]

Eugene Debs, who was born just down the road a ways from me. (Also--I think this is the right--he garnered the most votes of any socialist candidate who ever ran for president in the United States.) Also Jack Conroy, about whom a wonderful book was written called WORKER-WRITER, by Douglas Wixson--a history of the proletarian writers' movement as well as a biography of Conroy.
I have an old Modern Library copy of Reed's TEN DAYS THAT SHOOK THE WORLD, but still haven't gotten around to reading it.
Warning, Andy--you've wandered into a fascinating subject!

[Saundra Hummer]

I knew Mexicans who experienced Pancho Villa, and they really looked down on him. They were humble Mexicans who lived near the border, and he would steal their food, and anything else that he needed, never paying or asking, but just taking, and in some instances they say killing when there was no need to do so.

Emiliano Zapata is the one I admire the most, and perhaps I am wrong for doing so, but to my way of thinking he was the greater of the two men. More for the people and less about his personal agenda.

[Andy D]

No warning needed the subject of an American radical is very interesting ti me:wink2:

Socialism and America now there is a subject.

I have three copies of 'Ten Days' , one in Russian and a number of articles by Reed on both the Russian Revolution and the Mexican War.

Debs was one of those people who helped the Socialist Party grow as a potential mass movement in the states.

Regards

Andy D.

[Andy D]

Reed wanted to take socialism a little further that Debs and a few others wanted to go, this was one of the reasons why he ended up in Moscow.

One more example of how we can learn from history


Do you have a reference (ISBN) for the book you mention?

Regards

Andy D.

[Andy D]

All revolutionaries need to take whatever means to 'justify' their aims. Both Guevara and Zapata have had their critics, and have been accused of violating human rights etc. I guess we will have to decide if we feel they are revolutionary heroes or killers of innocent people.

Regards

Andy D.

[Bev Stapleton]

Always an interesting one, this. History is littered with revolutionaries who justify immediate atrocities in the light of long term idealism. Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot, Bin Laden.

It always strikes me that something happens - a balance point tips - when a 'revolutionary' moves from the inspiration of working for people to working for the abstraction of 'the people.' At that point some people become expendable in the interest of 'the people'.

One of the most fascinating individuals in that respect is Maximillian Robespierre. His career up to the early 1790s seems like a model of the just, caring, sensitive man. And then the abstractions took over and the result was a blood bath. Robespierre is remembered for the latter; few know of his genuine desire for human betterment.