President Bush, release your service records!

[Second Front]

Want to put the AWOL issue to rest? Release your service records!

Calpundit said:

MORE THAN JUST SERVICE RECORDS....Now that's more like it! I said "Release your service record, Mr. Commander in Chief," but Phil Carter takes the next step and tells us exactly which records we ought to be looking for. There's more than just service records that can help resolve what George Bush did or didn't do in the summer of 1972.

Check it out, Washington press corps. And remember, it's the coverup that gets 'em in the end, not the crime itself....

Posted by Kevin Drum at 10:14 AM | Permalink | TrackBack (0) | Comments (2)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



AWOL?....Josh Marshall wonders why the issue of George Bush's military service is getting traction this time around, when it didn't in 2000:

But there is something different here. And the difference is that the Democrats have decided to go on the offensive -- and this is a version of preemption that Dems may, and should, warm to. After Clark had some stumbles with the issue, Kerry has been hitting it for a couple weeks. And the recent round of coverage on it would never have emerged had Terry McAullife not forced it into the news cycle over the weekend.

He's right. But there's more to it than that. I know that all these points are painfully obvious, but can I make them anyway? Thanks.


Thank you, Michael Moore! Sure, "deserter" was deliberately inflammatory, but that's Moore's schtick, isn't it? And without the controversy about whether Moore had gone too far, this whole thing would have blown over almost immediately.


Back in 2000 a bit of youthful rebellion against military discipline wasn't that big a deal. After 9/11 and last year's flight-suited carrier landing, it is. George Bush's own actions have made this into a legitimate issue.


Dare I say it? Perhaps blogs have helped to keep this issue simmering along....


Finally, there's really only one question here, and it's the one that everyone should be banging on: why won't Bush release his full military record? What's he afraid of?

All the speculation in the world isn't worth a bucket of warm spit. The battle cry should be, "Release your service record, Mr. Commander in Chief." And we should say it over and over and over and over until it's as famous as Willie Horton or Morning in America or Monica's blue dress.


There's no excuse for not releasing those records in full. Unless, of course, he has something to hide.


AWOL (http://philcarter.blogspot.com/2004_02_01_philcarter_archive.html#107591570333210 255)

[still life]

Agreed. If Mr Bush served honourably, didn't shirk his service in the National Guard and has nothing to be ashamed of, why won't he release his service record??

In fact, even though he was never in any danger of being sent to Vietnam, there is nothing wrong with honourable service in the National Guard. Did he stay with the Guard for his whole period of enlistment, or did he in fact leave for a large chunk of it??
Considering that the mess in Iraq was perpetrated on his signature, as a former military man he normally would have a connection with those dead and wounded who are carrying out his agenda.

Wearing military regalia while addressing the troops does not make him a fellow soldier.

So, let's see the President's service record, so this can be cleared up and we all can move on.

[Second Front]

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/jd/2004/jd040204.gif

[Saundra Hummer]

Originally posted by Second Front
http://images.ucomics.com/comics/jd/2004/jd040204.gif

O.K. Were the other members of the Guard that he served with , sons of privilege, or were they just your ordinary citizen?

Were others given time off to attend college? Were they moved there for the express purpose of helping with a political campaign? Really, has anyone looked into any of this?

His records could be just a bunch of hooey! We all know what can be done with records. Has anyone talked to any of his fellow guardsmen, the guys who would have served along side of him, surely they would know if he were there or not, not just the commanding officers, who themselve might follow an order from a superior to protect a powerful persons kid!

Maybe everyone is reaching for straws here, but I don't remember any of my friends or relatives getting this type of treatment when in the guard. Join the guard, and get what, 8 months off to attend Harvard? Do other people get this opportunity once in the guard, have you ever heard of it before?

I would think that talking to the kid who checked the bags at a GI Joes who was able to join the guard might know more about this than a superior who wouldn't want to his own career by speaking up. These fellows who served with him would know if he were missing for the time periods people say he was. These are the types of people they need to talk to in my opinion, the average guy who was also in the guard, not someone in payroll, because we all know how that can be handled. Where did he cash his checks? Which towns and when, how many days after issuing, that should help with some of the questions. Those records should be available if they have a decent record keeping system, but who knows what they do with records in the guard after such a long period of time.

[still life]

All good questions, Sandi and I would have asked them, if you hadn't.
If there's anything that the military is really good at, besides training men and women to defend their country against the invading hordes, it's RECORD-KEEPING. So, I don't believe that there are no records of every time a soldier cashed his cheque, was promoted, went on leave, went AWOL, menus, guard duty and drill schedules and who was there, when. They love to document everything. That's why so many former military men, like my dad, were so annoyingly organized. So, what happened with GW??

Surely there are other National Guardsmen, who served with GW who could step forward and say whether he was where he said he was. Nothing military is done alone. There are always other soldiers around. Where are the soldiers who served with G.W.??
My father had army buddies out the ying yang. Where are all G.W.'s army buddies??

[Fran]

Hey- I checked my Militery records several years ago on a reserve assignment in Denver. I found a real gross error---- so I told them and they went ahead and said they'd correct it.
I assume the presydunt of the USA can get an "error" corrected too.

[kh1958]

There was an article on the front page of the Dallas Morning News today in which they were quoting an officer of the Texas National Guard to the effect that when Bush was governor of Texas, his staff inspected and edited his National Guard files, removing any embarrassing documents. This officer claimed that he personally saw documents from Bush's file in a trash can at this time.

[marvin g]

You can't release shredded records! Thanks to his CIA daddy! :D

[Saundra Hummer]

Originally posted by kh1958
There was an article on the front page of the Dallas Morning News today in which they were quoting an officer of the Texas National Guard to the effect that when Bush was governor of Texas, his staff inspected and edited his National Guard files, removing any embarrassing documents. This officer claimed that he personally saw documents from Bush's file in a trash can at this time.

Not a career man I'm guessing.

[kh1958]

Count the liars in the following article!


Aides say records show Bush served

Retired Guard officer says he saw some files discarded in trash


02:46 AM CST on Wednesday, February 11, 2004

By WAYNE SLATER and MICHELLE MITTELSTADT / The Dallas Morning News



The White House released records Tuesday to buttress the president's assertion that he fulfilled his military duty during the Vietnam War, but it faced new questions about whether George W. Bush's file was altered before his 2000 presidential race.


Retired National Guard Lt. Col. Bill Burkett said Tuesday that in 1997, then-Gov. Bush's chief of staff, Joe Allbaugh, told the National Guard chief to get the Bush file and make certain "there's not anything there that will embarrass the governor."


Col. Burkett said that a few days later at Camp Mabry in Austin, he saw Mr. Bush's file and documents from it discarded in a trash can. He said he recognized the documents as retirement point summaries and pay forms.


Bush aides denied any destruction of records in Mr. Bush's personnel file. "The charges are just flat-out not true," said Dan Bartlett, White House communications director.


He said the president has been forthright in producing all documents relevant to his stint in the Texas Air National Guard, from 1968 to 1973. He dismissed Col. Burkett as a disgruntled former officer of the Texas Guard.


Mr. Allbaugh, now a Washington lobbyist, called Col. Burkett's assertions "hogwash."


A spokesman for the Texas Air National Guard, Lt. Col. John Stanford, dismissed Col. Burkett's account of the conversation as "far-fetched." Of the accusation that the files were altered, he said, "I have no knowledge that such an event ever occurred."


The release Tuesday of Mr. Bush's retirement point summaries and pay records as a member of the Guard underscored an effort by the White House to resolve a growing political debate over whether the president fulfilled his military obligations. Mr. Bush's service emerged as an issue in the 2000 campaign after a review of his military file found no evidence that he showed up for Guard duty for more than a year after transferring in May 1972 from his base in Houston to Alabama, where he worked on a Senate campaign.


Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe recently called Mr. Bush "AWOL" – absent without leave – during his time in Alabama. He noted that Mr. Bush's commanding officers said that they could not recall him taking part in some training.


Mr. Bush, who appears increasingly likely to face decorated Vietnam War veteran John Kerry in the November election, has long said he fulfilled his Texas Air National Guard duties, both in Texas and Alabama.


The records that the White House released Tuesday reflect pay and service for dates in 1972 and 1973 – a further refutation of the "outrageous, baseless accusations" made by Democrats, said White House press secretary Scott McClellan.




Service under scrutiny


Major events in President Bush's service in the Texas National Guard, from staff and wire reports:


Jan. 19, 1968: Mr. Bush completes Air Force officer qualification test in New Haven, Conn., where he is attending Yale University.


May 27, 1968: Walter Staudt, commander of the Texas Air National Guard, interviews Mr. Bush and says he should be accepted for pilot training. Mr. Bush, whose father was Houston Rep. George Bush, had been recommended for the Guard by Texas Lt. Gov. Ben Barnes. In 1999, Mr. Barnes said he did so at the request of Houston oilman Sid Adger, a Bush family friend. The Bushes have said they didn't ask for or know about Mr. Adger's efforts.


Critics say there was a waiting list of thousands for Guard slots, but the man in charge of keeping the list said there was no such wait for willing, qualified pilot applicants.


Aug. 25, 1968: After graduating from Yale, Mr. Bush completes six weeks of basic military training in San Antonio as a 2nd lieutenant.


Nov. 26, 1968-March 1970: Mr. Bush attends one year of undergraduate pilot training at Moody Air Force Base in Georgia and additional training at Ellington Air Force Base near Houston.


May 1972: Mr. Bush, by then a 1st lieutenant, asks for and receives permission to continue his duties in Alabama while working as political director on the Senate campaign of Winton Blount, a friend of his father. He loses his flight credentials after missing a physical exam.


Mr. Bush's two superior officers in Houston write a year later that they could not perform his annual evaluation because he had "not been observed at this unit" during the preceding 12 months. The retired general who commanded the Alabama unit then has said he does not recall seeing Mr. Bush there, though the president says he did report for duty.


November 1972: Mr. Bush returns to his unit at Ellington in Texas.


May-July 1973: Mr. Bush participates in nonflying drills at Ellington.


Sept. 18, 1973: Mr. Bush receives permission to transfer to reserve status and is placed on inactive Guard duty about six months before his six-year commitment ends. He asked for that so he could attend Harvard Business School.


Oct. 1, 1973: Mr. Bush is honorably discharged.


The records show that Mr. Bush was paid for 82 days of service during 1972 and 1973 – nearly half of which occurred during a three-month period, from May through July 1973.

The records do not indicate what duty Mr. Bush performed or where. The White House said it has not been able to produce fellow Guardsmen who could testify that Mr. Bush attended Guard meetings and drills.


"The president recalls serving both when he was in Texas and when he was in Alabama," Mr. McClellan said. "We have provided you these documents that show clearly that the president of the United States fulfilled his duties, and that is the reason that he was honorably discharged."







'That means he served'





The White House also issued an assessment solicited from a retired Texas Air National Guard personnel director who scoured the Bush military files during the 2000 campaign and reviewed the latest documents.


The new records "clearly" show that Mr. Bush "completed his military obligation in a satisfactory manner," retired Lt. Col. Albert Lloyd Jr. wrote.


The Democrats' Mr. McAuliffe said he still has questions.


"The fact remains that there is still no evidence that George W. Bush showed up for duty as ordered while in Alabama," he said. "We also still do not know why the president's superiors filed a report saying they were unable to evaluate his performance for that year because he had not been present to be evaluated."


Mr. McClellan said the records came to the staff's attention only Monday, after a check with the Air Reserve Personnel Center in Denver the day after Mr. Bush said on NBC's Meet the Press that he "absolutely" was willing to release his military records.


The 11 pages are pay records and summaries reflecting how many points Mr. Bush accumulated toward fulfillment of his Guard obligation. The records don't document any service dates between April 16, 1972, and Oct. 28, 1972 – periods during which Mr. Bush was in Alabama.


Although the records do reflect some pay dates in 1972, Mr. McClellan stopped short of saying the documents offered definitive proof that Mr. Bush had shown up for duty in Alabama.


"When you serve, you are paid for that service, and these documents outlined the days on which he was paid," he said. "That means he served."


Mr. McClellan said Mr. Bush, a fighter pilot who didn't fly after April 1972 and later lost his flight status because he didn't complete his annual physical exam, performed "equivalent duty" in Alabama.







'The fair picture'





Mr. Bartlett called the Burkett allegations "outlandishly false" and accused him of being part of a group of disgruntled former Guardsmen critical of Maj. Gen. Daniel James III, head of the Texas National Guard before Mr. Bush promoted him to head the National Guard in Washington.


Gen. James' office referred all calls to Col. Stanford.


Col. Burkett acknowledged that he and other Guardsmen questioned the discipline standards and other issues under Gen. James. But Col. Burkett said from his home near Abilene that he remains loyal to the Guard.


Col. Burkett, who has voted in both GOP and Democratic primaries in the past, said he was disturbed over how the Bush file was handled. He initially made his assertions on a Web site two years ago, and they are reported in detail in a forthcoming book, Bush's War for Re-Election, by James Moore.


"I would like it that everybody sees the honest and fair picture here," he said.


According to Col. Burkett, he was at headquarters in the summer 1997 when he heard the conversation between Gen. James and Mr. Allbaugh. He said the Guard commander had the conversation about eliminating "embarrassments" on a speakerphone.


About 10 days later, he said, he saw Texas Gen. John Scribner going through the Bush file.


"I looked down and saw files on the table and of that sort of stuff, and in the wastecan there is a retirement points document that has the name Bush, George W. lLt on it," he said. "There were both originals and Xerox copies in the stack."


Gen. Scribner, now retired, denied the episode. "I sure don't know anything about what he's talking about," he said.


Staff writers Pete Slover and Ed Timms contributed to this report.

[Saundra Hummer]

It sounds as though the records aren't complete, at least not as complete as we would like to see.

Now, if there have been records changed or done away with, it comes down to he said, she said , they all said, and who do you believe?

Who you want to believe, and this is one time that I want to believe someone else other than the administration, as I don't think they have leveled with us in the past, so why should they now, or in the future?

[still life]

Which illustrates what I had drilled into me as a child. There is almost no offence we can admit to that is not overshadowed by a lie told to cover it up.
For example, I would think that even a draft-dodger would be better off admitting that that's what they were, given the times, than pretending that they served, with no proof.
Honesty is paramount in anyone who aspires to lead particularly, I believe.

[Frank Mullen]

So today he released his dental records. That should settle something. ( But I dunno what.)

[Bev Stapleton]

President Bush, release your service records!

Rumour has it that Mosaic are planning a boxed set...with all the alternate takes!

[Andy D]

Well why does this come as a surprise to anyone? The illusion is that the people we elect to lead us, are some how great statesman, great warriors etc.

In reality they are far from this, but still the illusion is easier to accept than it is to challenge and question. Why not ask about GW's human rights support or his environmental convictions? You may be surprised what you find ;)

Regards

Andy D.

[Saundra Hummer]

Originally posted by Frank Mullen
So today he released his dental records. That should settle something. ( But I dunno what.)

They say that G.W. doesn't like to spend his own money, so maybe he did have a checkup at the guards expense, but I find it odd that he wouldn't be going to the best dentist available, not one that the guard had, or maybe the guard dentist was the best one in the area, serving time in the guard to be able to stay out of the conflict as so many poeple did, including my step brother, as no one wanted to go off to that war, or at least there were numerous people who didn't believe in it, and didn't want to go.

They say that this has to be a record that proves that he was there as there were even drawings of his teeth, not that those couldn't have been done at any time.

George Bush had been guaranteed he wouldn't have to go, to Vietnam as the plane he trained in was obsolete, as far as combat was concerned, and as such it wasn't being used in combat, so that wasn't a concern for him.

It just seems that because of who he was, what his connections were, that he was afforded special priviledges that others in the guard didn't receive, or ask for.

We are susposed to admire our politicians???? How in the world can we if we keep abreast of what it is they are doing, and what they have done in the past. Self seeking egotistical; care to add any number of terms to my short list? Only kidding here, but it is hard not to go ballistic while thinking about what these people are all about.

[Andy D]

The history of US Presidents is one of bigotry, racism, colonialism etc etc. And if you happen to have a president that tries to change the 'New World Order', or even the internal world order, as Carter and Clinton tried, well I guess you know what happens:rolleyes:

Regards

Andy D.

[Saundra Hummer]

Maybe I'm naieve, but there are presidents that I have liked, and for the most part, although not always, admired what it is that they tried to and did accomplish.

My parents loved FDR, so I had a respect for him, and still do, my husbands grandparents despised the man, I really liked Truman, as did my folks, although one can question his use of the A Bomb, I really admired Kennedy, until I learned a little more about him and now I have ambivillent feelings about him and I am upset that I had put so much faith in him, as he really wasn't who or what I thought he was. I liked the things that Johnson accomplished with medical treatments being made available for so many that couldn't afford it, and for his civil rights legislation, some of which Reagan undid in nothing flat, and I admired what Bill Clinton was trying to accomplish for the average citizen, however he was a disappointment to me due to the fact that he was so short sighted as to be so reckless with his libido. Not that they all might have done the same, they were just so careful as not to get caught up in a scandal. Nixon of course was a different story, it wasn't his sex drive that did him in, or if it was he had turned it into something else entirely, his paranoia did a number on him. I liked Carter, and we see what kind of man he is, look at his selfless acts since leaving the "Presidency." He made a mistake boycotting the Olympics, it was the one thing that people didn't forgive him for, and his being blamed for the crashes in the desert weren't his doings, even though he sent the mission. He was like I've said before, "Damned if he did. Damned if he didn't."

I know that our banana boat diplomacy was a disaster, we gave too much creedence to how the fruit companies wanted things done, but hey almost all powerful countries have used their power unfairly and unwisely, but we have worked for change, we are still trying to change how things are going in this country. It is a long and slow process, and I think that the day and age of Jeffersons belief that a little blood must flow now and then is no longer a belief we should try to implement, we have other longer lasting methods of doing what it is that needs to be done. Maybe not enough people stand up against bigotry, but our government has programs in place now to try to prevent overt racism from ruining peoples lives, now the people themselves need to be better about making change. We have made inroads in all of these issues, Bigotry, racism, colonialism, etc., etc., Riots in the streets over these issues in this day and age would only accentuate the problem, do nothing to soothe the issue. We just hope that with education, and a more tolerent view of others will speed up this process, not that anyone is advocating violence here, just using it to show my point of view. We are only as good or bad as our next act, our next policy, as we can't change the past only remember it, and try to not let these things that you speak of, ever happen again. But then again this would all be the way it would be in a perfect world.

[Frank Mullen]

I have a creepy feeling,things looking fairly good for the democrats, that we are about to see the republicans do what they always do. Remember Willy Horton. They're not about to stick with the issues. In the last couple of days they've dug up pictures of Kerry with Jane Fonda--and whatever they'll try to make out of that. The pictures are 30 years old at anti-war protests. They've found quotes taken out of context of Kerry supposedly accusing veterans of atrocities.

They must have an army of flacks turning over every rock in search of scandal about Kerry. Get ready friends.Count on it. In the next week they're going to find something or make up something, but it's coming.Watch out!

[still life]

Originally posted by Frank Mullen
I have a creepy feeling,things looking fairly good for the democrats, that we are about to see the republicans do what they always do. Remember Willy Horton. They're not about to stick with the issues. In the last couple of days they've dug up pictures of Kerry with Jane Fonda--and whatever they'll try to make out of that. The pictures are 30 years old at anti-war protests. They've found quotes taken out of context of Kerry supposedly accusing veterans of atrocities.

They must have an army of flacks turning over every rock in search of scandal about Kerry. Get ready friends.Count on it. In the next week they're going to find something or make up something, but it's coming.Watch out!


Of course. And, what's more scary is that the scandals, regarding Kerry, will get front-page coverage and the apologies and/or retractions will get middle of the paper coverage, well after the damage has been done.
Although that's also true of any Dem smears, against Bush, it's still politics as usual. Personal smears are standard policy, it seems, when no political wrongdoing can be proved.
The military service questions are legitimate, regarding Bush, especially during an ill-advised ongoing debacle in Iraq and should be answered.
How newsworthy it is that Kerry participated in anti-war protests is less relevant, since it's already known. The picture of, perhaps, Kerry at a demo with Jane Fonda is simply, IMO, an attempt to rally those who called her Hanoi Jane, after she went to North Vietnam and was photographed there. Hundreds of thousands of people protested the war in Vietnam, so it isn't surprising that there are photos of Kerry at a demonstration.

Then, let's move on.......

[Saundra Hummer]

What is amazing is that the public falls for tactics such as these. I guess it is like what I have always said, "People believe what they want to believe."

Spin? Slander? Dirty Tricks? Bring it on, everyone loves it!

[kh1958]

The smear campaign is already happening. Haven't you seen the internet stories about Kerry and a female intern?

[Saundra Hummer]

It seems to me that to hold Tim's questions of him to a minimum, he used the age old tactic of wanting to make a point or to add to a previous answer, knowing the longer he talked the less crossing would go on.

He had talking points he wanted to make, points that would hold him up in a good light, and this is what he did, and what he always does, when not scripted, and when he is scripted.

It's just that people are beginnng to see through this ploy that all politicians use, and for the most part, a lot of us realize just what it is, that is going on.

[Frank Mullen]

When I wrote a couple of posts ago that I expected dirty pool from the GOP I didn't expect it to take the immediate form it would take. So they faked a picture of Kerry sitting next to her while she was standing up.Different heights, different sun shadows. These idiots are exhibiting the same efficiency framing Kerry that they use in framing foreign policy. Can we survive until inaguration day?Is Mort Sahl still alive? Come back Mort, we need you!

[Saundra Hummer]

Did any of you see PBS last night, with what Mark Shields and the new fellow were saying about Kerry and Fonda?

The Republicans forget that it was Kerry's heriosm, whose blood was spilled in Viet Nam, that saved his fellow service men, the high speed boat he was commanding, was always in danger, always being fired on, so when he came home from the war, highly decorated, and praised for his duty, bravery, and heroism, it was well deserved.

His being in a crowd of war protesters says volumes about his character. He wasn't afraid to stand up for his beliefs, which were forged in Viet Nam, not in some Ivy League college, or on Capital Hill. His were forged under fire, a duty he didn't shirk.

How dare they try to say he isn't worthy, how many of the men who are implimenting this dirty campaign trick served, or how many of their children served in Viet Nam? Or any other conflict since then?

Talk about dirty tricks and trying to discredit someone braver than themselves, someone who almost gave his all to our country, and a lost cause, a man who lost limbs in the service that so many of them have never served in; remember the fellow in the wheel chair who was missing his limbs, who was working to better this country, and they found a way to try to discredit even him!

They will need to come up with better campaign stratagies, than the one they are trying to saddle Kerry with, as this one doesn't fly with most of us.

Because he didn't want to see other mens sons killed in this useless war isn't a fault, it is virtious for him to have believed the way he did, and have the fortitude, and backbone to stand up for those beliefs for everyone to see.

[Frank Mullen]

If you type into Google "Ann Coulter Max Cleland" you will find that according to Coulter, Max Cleland,(bronze star,silver star both won in combat in Nam) lost three of his limbs to a grenade, not in combat, but picking up a grenade while on his way to get a beer,

Is there no depth to which these bastards won't go?

[Saundra Hummer]

Sounds as though she just might spend a bit of her time at the local watering hole. With her logic, it wouldn't surprise me!

I'm terrible with names, but you have the man that I was thinking of. She isn't the only one to have pulled such low cutting acts against this man.

I was watching Politically incorrect when she made the all time dumb blonde statement, saying that Arabs never contributed anything of importance to the world.

That just floored me!

Would, and do people actually believe anything that she says?

[Saundra Hummer]

This issue just doesn't die, as now they are saying with the new records that have just been released that there are inconsisstencies in them, that the typewriter is from an earlier time, that many letters are more than likely forged, as the officer in charge didin't write things down, he memorized. He wasn't into sending letters, at least that is what people who knew him are saying, he wasn't into letters.

This flap over Bush being AWOL iis coming to life again, but no one cares about his service, his avoidance of the war; however, for one that did serve, they want to accuse him of everything, and deny that he even had bullets flying around him the days he was involved in a fire fight. Even though they are claiming that Kerry couldn't have been in Cambodia like he had said (retracting it to smooth some feathers), he very well could have been, as it is easy to go further than planned, we were sending covert operatives in, but if he just drifted over the border, or was swiftly going over the border, it would have been easy to do and not know it. He very well could have been in Cambodia, or he could have very well just believed he was in Cambodia. Without gates and installations to check you at our own borders, you don't know when you cross them. we went to a Mexican harvest dinner across the border down by Boulevard California, and we drove on a dirt road to get there, and we never knew when we crossed the border, but we were in Mexico.

The reasoning behind the anti Kerry Navy men and others is astounding, and these men who have claimed to know so much, are falling by the wayside, the inconsisstencies in their stories are glaring and biased politically, their thoughts aren't whether or not Kerry served honorably, but because of his anti war rhetoric, he repeating of testiomony (told by others), of what happend in Viet Nam, made them despise him, and then there is Politics". These men are so wanting this administration to be elected this time, it seems they are willing to say and do anything, there are even financial links being inverstigated and talked about. Just political tricks, they work, that's why the use them. We won't hear of many of them until well after the election, just like with other candidates in the past.

[Saundra Hummer]

Check out this article by David Corn, it involves the subterfuge of the Swift Boat ads, and statements of the men, and their being less than straigforward.


Here's the address, just click it:

http://www.thenation.com/capitalgames/index.mhtml?pid=1825

[Saundra Hummer]

Wrong article, my previous post, but it goes to the point on the article that Chris posted.

I watched part of Bill Moyers Now last night and they went into GW's not having served his time, his being shown favortism, having replaced someone ahead of him, of his having been made a Lieutenent upon entering, allowed to become a pilot with poor scores, and of his having not fullfilled his obligations, as far as taking a physical, and how it is known, regardless of the CBS memos, he wasn't there, and how that goes to character and of being ignorant of military issues, "Ignorant" and that because of his never having known the fear of battle, being too afraid to go himself, he thinks nothing of sending others off to die in unarmored Hummers, to not have body armour and any other form of important equipment to insure their well being, and their survival. They said it all goes to character and in that, he is lacking, he will send other off to die, when he himself didn't have the nerve to go himself. He will tell us anything to continue to have the voters support for this ill planned, ill executed occupation.

Did you know our dead have surpassed the dead of Viet Nam? In three years time in Viet Nam, they had less deaths than we have suffered, that our troops have sufferend, since they were deployed there?