Easy question for jazz pros

[legacy13]

I am a student and I have to write a cd review on several jazz selections. For my first I chose Miles Davis' Kind of Blue. I am having a bit of trouble with my analysis in only one aspect. My ears are having trouble distinguishing between which sax is Coltrane and which one is Adderly. With the version I have I have determined through much scientific research that Coltrane's solos are panned right and Adderly's are panned left. To get a more accurate sense of what is going on I ask this:
Can someone please break down several of these tracks by who is soloing and when? This would allow me to be much more accurate in my analysis.
For instance...on "So What" I have Miles first, then Coltrane, followed by Adderly, ending with Bill Evans.
Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[solarjazzband]

You should clearly hear difference between Trane and Cannonball. Most of all, coltrane plays tenor sax and canonnball plays alto, so if you hear that difference, you are there.

[Muskrat Ramble]

I honestly used to have trouble differentiating the two as well since there's overlap in the instruments' ranges. Things to listen for: Cannonball will often sound brighter, airier, bluesier, higher-pitched, and use more legato (slurring notes together for a smooth, flowing sound) and "swoops" down and up from notes with dynamic (volume) shifts. Trane will sound lower, with a bigger, rougher sound. You can get a feel for his sound from "Blue in Green," where Adderley doesn't play. And if you listen to a lot of their other work, you get a feel for their stylistic quirks (like Trane's squawking overblowing and faster, more mathematical-sounding scalar runs or the way Cannonball has a breathier, lighter sounding vibrato with a decrescendo at the end of phrases on slow ballads). Btw, I don't think they're panned consistently one way or the other on my copy (the '97 remaster with the alternate take of "Flamenco Sketches").

I think the order is:

"So What" Trane then Cannonball
"Freddie Freeloader" Trane then Cannonball
"All Blues" Cannonball then Trane
"Flamenco Sketches" (standard and alt. take) Trane then Cannonball

But I could be totally wrong :)

[legacy13]

Thanks for the info. I had the same order for the first 2 but opposite for the second 2. I was solely basing this on the panning. I have the same copy with the alternate Flamenco Sketches. I was hoping that the engineer kept the setup consistent. This is the first time I have listened to either Adderly or Coltrane, so it's not as easy to be aware of there stylistic quirks. The difference in ranges is more difficult to pick up than I thought it would be. I'll get it sooner or later, Thanks

[Noah Peterson]

From a saxman's perspective. Cannonball shreds furiously and frenetic. He's an untamed whirlwind.

Coltrane is the controlled, exacting spiritual deepness that echose the overtones of his everpresent "OM."


Probably not helpful - but Trane is deep and Cannoball is just cool.

[Morganized]

Originally posted by Muskrat Ramble
I honestly used to have trouble differentiating the two as well since there's overlap in the instruments' ranges. Things to listen for: Cannonball will often sound brighter, airier, bluesier, higher-pitched, and use more legato (slurring notes together for a smooth, flowing sound) and "swoops" down and up from notes with dynamic (volume) shifts. Trane will sound lower, with a bigger, rougher sound. You can get a feel for his sound from "Blue in Green," where Adderley doesn't play. And if you listen to a lot of their other work, you get a feel for their stylistic quirks (like Trane's squawking overblowing and faster, more mathematical-sounding scalar runs or the way Cannonball has a breathier, lighter sounding vibrato with a decrescendo at the end of phrases on slow ballads). Btw, I don't think they're panned consistently one way or the other on my copy (the '97 remaster with the alternate take of "Flamenco Sketches").

I think the order is:

"So What" Trane then Cannonball
"Freddie Freeloader" Trane then Cannonball
"All Blues" Cannonball then Trane
"Flamenco Sketches" (standard and alt. take) Trane then Cannonball

But I could be totally wrong :) B]I honestly used to have trouble differentiating the two as well since there's overlap in the instruments' ranges.

I think Muskrat is right on here. Even very experienced jazz listeners if they are being honest, will agree that it is hard to tell the difference between Coltrane and Cannonball at times . I have a friend who has been playing sax for almost 50 years now who would agree with you on this one.

I think Muskrat may be right on the rest of what he says as well.

[anu]

I'm gnona look a bit silly here, but I only got this album yesterday, despite playing for years. Having said that - gimme a break, I'm only 18 - I'm starting buying earlier than most!

Anyway, I had some fun working out which was which. I've forgotten what I decided now, so I'll listen to it again in a bit and give you some info, although I'll probably not add much to what others have said.

[msflore]

My first post as I joined today.

Re:
I am a student and I have to write a cd review on several jazz selections.

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"Kind of Blue" was recorded in '59. Similar sounds of Cannonball can be heard on his "Somethin' Else" (Blue Note-CDP 546338) recorded in Aug '58 w/ Miles as a side man.
Also, you can hear 'Trane taped at the same time as KOB on his_"Giant Steps" (Atlantic 1311-2). The tune "Giant Steps" was taped 12 days after KOB finished up. The alternate take was taped 19 days before it finished.
So you_can see there's plenty to compare to though you are only 18 years on the planet...I cried when 'Trane, 'ball and Miles passed. They were of the most exciting, explorative, inovative and wondreous of players. The grasping of their tonal qualities will always be your guide to differentation of players of any instrument including electric pianos.
Good luck.

[monk]

Listen to just some tracks of Coltrane albums (late 50s - early 60s) and some tracks of Adderley albums (same period).
It takes not much listening experience to be UNABLE to mistake them for each other!

Best Wishes,
Monk

[Newbie]

I've just stumbled on this thread. Kind of Blue was recorded on two sessions. The first three tracks (first session), have Coltrane on the left channel and Adderly on the right. The last two tracks, the engineer (Van Gelder), decided to move things around and so All Blues and Flamenco Sketches have Coltrane on the right instead.
Adderly has mentioned the similarity in tone also. They're both drenched in the blues, and Coltrane used to play alto while Adderly himself likes to go deep (taken from Khan's book.)

[bubber]

Even if they overlap in range, the sound of the instruments are different, their vibrato is different, their phraseology is different - among other things you can still hear a lot of Charlie Parker influence in Addeleys playing, and though Parker probably influenced almost every saxophone player this influence is not so obvious in Coltrane.

I think if you have listened to this music for some time, and listened to the musicians in other settings as well, it will be more or less impossible to mistake one for the other, just like it's impossible not to distinguish between Lester Young and Johnny Hodges - even if they too overlap in range and Lester has a light tenor sound.

[clave]

For what it's worth, I've been listening to Cannon and Trane for several decades now.... and there are times on Kind of Blue where it's difficult to distinguish who's playing what when. In general, I can hear the stylistic and tonal differences jsut fine, so maybe it's the mastering???? (Or else I'm not too perceptive! :))

[bluenoter]

Originally posted by Muskrat Ramble
I think the order is:

"So What" Trane then Cannonball
"Freddie Freeloader" Trane then Cannonball
"All Blues" Cannonball then Trane
"Flamenco Sketches" (standard and alt. take) Trane then Cannonball
Hi, folks--

I'm no expert, but I wrote down the solo order a couple of years ago, and I came up with exactly the same thing.