Older swinging Jazz, styles/genres

[zicada]

First off, i was happy to find the site and this forum. After reading a few posts i get the feeling there are alot of knowledgable music lovers here. I would love it if some of you would find the time to answer the questions of a newcomer to the world of jazz.

I have been listening to anything jazz related i could get my hands on for some time, and it seems there are alot of undercategories or genres.

To my limited understanding of jazz so far, ive sorted what ive heard into two piles: classic and modern.

Whereas Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong go as classics, and things like Brubeck and Coltrane go as newer, more bold styles.
What are the major categories of jazz called ? and are there any signature artists that can be put into these categories ?

I end up liking most of what i hear, and ive also started to listen to big band jazz like Buddy Rich etc.

However, I seem to be unable to get ahold of older more swinging "happy" kinds of jazz, probably saint louis style,- clarinet, brass, that kinda thing.
What are some good names to lay on my local dealership when it comes to this style of jazz ?


-- zicada

[marvin g]

Originally posted by zicada: However, I seem to be unable to get ahold of older more swinging "happy" kinds of jazz, probably saint louis style,- clarinet, brass, that kinda thing.

If I'm ready this right it looks like you're describing New Orleans Jazz. To my knowledge that would be Louis Armstrong, Sidney Bechet, Kid Ory, etc. The only other clarinet player would be Benny Goodman and Artie Shaw, etc bands.

[Fran]

I wonder if you mean Kansas City (Basie Etc) as the style.

[Saundra Hummer]

I really liked Herman, and Artie Shaw. Herman was my favorite when a kid. Loved his Cow Town Boogie, and wish I had it on a CD.

My folks loved Tommy Dorsey, and went to see him every chance they had. They also like Harry James, but I don't remember much of their music.

For Vocals try Helen O'Connell, Amapola, Green Sleeves, and any number of other songs by her, and Tex Beneke, Chantanooga Choo Choo, how great that song is, and what unusual voices botth he and Helen had. Absolute favorites. Hope I have their names spelled correctly for you. If not someone will let us know, as we have the spelling police here. The names have to be right to find them in searches.

Try June Christy, and Tenormans facvorite, Julie London, married to the musician Bobby Troop. Tennorman also recomends Sandra Lawrence. Mel Torme is a good one. People can fill you in on which ones are their better recordings and the names of the albums. Kindof jumping around here, but they are all pretty good.

Of course there is Lional Hampton on the vibes if you are into that, he was always a kick.

[lone_wolf]

Anything by or featuring trumpeter/flugelhornist Clark Terry should work for you. The All Music Guide refers to him as "possessor of the happiest sound in jazz". He played with Basie and Ellington, and has recorded many fine small group and big band sets of his own.

[Saundra Hummer]

I was always upset that Clark didn't get the bandleader position on the Tonght show with Johnny Carson when he took over, instead of Doc Seversen. I was amazed that he took the position, when it was so obvious as to who the greater talent was, and who was the best arranger, and even down to who it was with the great personality. It should have been Clark. Maybe it had been offered to him, but I don't think so, and it was he who should have had the job. I was terribly upset that he was passed over.

[lone_wolf]

That is a shame, Sandi. I didn't know Clark lost out on that position, as I agree, he would have been more fun than Severinsen.

For zicada, I recommend Fletcher Henderson's "Tidal Wave" as a good example of rollicking early swing. A friend of mine says he's always reminded of the Three Stooges when he hears this set of recordings, for some reason. The set features a host of great swing players whose names you might become familiar with if you like the style, such as Coleman Hawkins, Benny Carter, Ben Webster, and Henry "Red" Allen, whose "World on a String" is also a super set of upbeat Dixieland swing.

I also have Sidney Bechet's Greatest Hits on RCA/Victor, which contains a good sampling of his festive, authentic New Orleans jazz style.

[bubber]

For some happy swinging jazz recorded during the last decades, try tenorist Scott Hamilton. He's made a number of good records, I'll especially recommend the trio record Major League and a record featuring Hamilton and trumpeter Ruby Braff. You can't go wrong with those two.

Maybe not stocked by every record shop around the world (they should be!) but still in print, I believe.

[zicada]

Thank you all!

From the artists mentioned, the closest to what i was looking for was indeed Sidney Bechet. One of his tracks are called: Saint-Germain des prés, this is exactly the sort of style i was after.

And yes, i did mean New Orleans *blushes*

Also got ahold of another great track by Al Cohn, Scott Hamilton and Buddy Tate called Tickle Toe, from the Tour De France album,- very good music!

Now that I've been able to establish a better idea of what im looking for, im sure there are alot of other artists i should look into. Any suggestions are more than welcome, thanks again!

-- zic

[peter rh]

Wild Bill Davison & Henry Red Allen(already suggested) may well appeal - plenty of material available

[Frank Mullen]

You're sure on the right track based on who you're currently listening to. There are guys playing all manner of jazz styles and you oughtta listen to them all. There is a thread here on AAJ listing jazz available on the internet called I think
"Jazz listening on the Internet" under "Jazz Radio" that has a lot of sites on the net that have free samples of jazz of all kinds to listen to .
And do listen to the jabber of the guys on this site, they know a lot about jazz.

[tkeables]

Yeah, Clark Terry's a gas: Whether it's his various renditions of "Mumbles" tunes, his "Serenade to a Bus Seat" humor or absolute virtuosity when he alternates licks between trumpet in one hand and flugelhorn in the other.

Pianist Billy Taylor's music typically has happy bounce to it, too...

[Saundra Hummer]

Originally posted by tkeables
Yeah, Clark Terry's a gas: Whether it's his various renditions of "Mumbles" tunes, his "Serenade to a Bus Seat" humor or absolute virtuosity when he alternates licks between trumpet in one hand and flugelhorn in the other.

Pianist Billy Taylor's music typically has happy bounce to it, too...

Sent a letter to Clarks site, but I don't know if he ever got it, received an unusual looking piece of email the next day or so, and hit my spam button before I thought to check if it might have been he or Sonny Rollins who I had also written to.

I was wanting to thank them for their kindnesses and their great music which I always enjoyed so much, and then I hit my spam button! Probably not them, but I would love to talk to them at least one more time. Wish they would come on the site, wish they would be easier to reach, still regret I didn't get to falk to a lot of the ones that moved early. Would have loved to have done that, and hope to with these two great guys in the future. I need to give it one more try.

[Phil Kelly]

The only problem here seems to where to draw the line between "classic" and" modern" jazz forms ..after all , bebop , Woody Herman and the Basie New Testament Bands are ALL almost 60 years behind us ..:eek2:

I would like to mention that since some interest was expressed in big bands, I really would urge you to buy some of the CDs by *living* big bands of today which fit into your specifications of "swing" like :

Sammy Nestico, John Fedchock, Bill Holman, Rob McConnell, and, if I may be perrmitted a small act of self-floggery ( ahem ) : my own big band CD
"Convergence Zone" .. Origin 82417..

end of plugola :D :D

[peter rh]

What Phil Kelly seem to overlook is that recording dates have no
bearing on quality of music - past or present. New is not good and old is not bad. Anybody,but particularly those new to jazz,should feel free to enjoy whatever they feel comfortable with. When zicada or anyone else wishes to explore further,he/she can make their own choice or ask for some suggestions.
To suggest that jazz fans stop listening to certain music, because
it was recored X years ago, is silly.

[Saundra Hummer]

Hello Lone_Wolf,

I don't now if Clark was passed over or not, but I just assumed he would take over as band leader, and could hardly wait, as I knew his music, and his arranging skills, and thought what a great trip he would be taking us on. They used to give the band the opportunity to shine once in a while, more than now, and I thought that Clark would be showing everyone that hadn't heard great jazz much, a chance to hear the best. Instead we got Doc's long winded, long held blasts. I loved Clarks subtlety, his style, his humor, and his classey way of traveling his own path.

[lone_wolf]

Scott Hamilton is one of the most significant and talented modern swing "revivalist" players. However, for those interested in CD acquisitions rather than track by track downloads, you might like to know that "Major League" (1986) was combined with "No Bass Hit" (1979) as a single CD entitled "Double Play" (2002). Both sessions featured tenor Scott Hamilton, pianist Dave McKenna, and drummer Jake Hanna in a bass-less trio format, relying on McKenna's solid left-hand to nail down the bass patterns.

[Phil Kelly]

Originally posted by peter rh
What Phil Kelly seem to overlook is that recording dates have no
bearing on quality of music - past or present. New is not good and old is not bad. Anybody,but particularly those new to jazz,should feel free to enjoy whatever they feel comfortable with. When zicada or anyone else wishes to explore further,he/she can make their own choice or ask for some suggestions.
To suggest that jazz fans stop listening to certain music, because
it was recored X years ago, is silly.


I have no idea what prompted this interpretation of anything I said ..BUt I emphatically did NOT imply any mucic of whaever era was "better " or "worse" than any other .. recording "quality " wasn't even mentioned ..all I said was is was hard to designate where the so called "classic" era commenced ..period.

assuming this from my previous post is really a semantic stretch ..

[peter rh]

originally posted by Phil Kelly
The only problem here seems to where to draw the line between "classic" and" modern" jazz forms ..after all , bebop , Woody Herman and the Basie New Testament Bands are ALL almost 60 years behind us ..
is not exactly praise of any description
originally posted by Phil Kelly
I would like to mention that since some interest was expressed in big bands, I really would urge you to buy some of the CDs by *living* big bands of today which fit into your specifications of "swing" like :
*living* as opposed to dead ?
We seem to differ

[Phil Kelly]

originally posted by Phil Kelly

quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The only problem here seems to where to draw the line between "classic" and" modern" jazz forms ..after all , bebop , Woody Herman and the Basie New Testament Bands are ALL almost 60 years behind us ..
------------------------------------------------------------------------

is not exactly praise of any description
originally posted by Phil Kelly

>>>> again as I said: " all I said was is was hard to designate where the so called "classic" era commenced ..period. "

this was a quantifying statement ..WHERE being the operative word ..It in no way connotes any qualitative intent ..praise or dispersion ..

We really seem to have a semantic block going here pk





quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would like to mention that since some interest was expressed in big bands, I really would urge you to buy some of the CDs by *living* big bands of today which fit into your specifications of "swing" like :
------------------------------------------------------------------------

*living* as opposed to dead ?
We seem to differ


substitute " contemporary " and you imply a whole category of big bands that involve more adventurous music than that implied by " living big bands of today which fit into your specifications of "swing"( like : Basie, Herman , etc )

I still dont see what the problem here is ..am I not writing in English :confused:

[peter rh]

Phil - I don't know why you chose to describe music (mentioned
in the thread) as "ALL almost 60 years behind us... :eek2:
and then proceed -

."I really would urge you to buy some of the CDs by *living* big bands "
There seems little room for confusion concerning your preference.
References to labels such as Swing,Modern and Contemporary can be fairly pointless to newcomers unless they request assistance.