Is Bush As Arrogant As He Comes Across?

[synic]

Doesn't he come across as really arrogant to you? The way he just does whatever the hell he wants? He's always smirking too.

[Saundra Hummer]

His walk is most telling. It is like his suit sleeves are too tight. I have to laugh every time.

[3pointdeli]

yes. it's safe to say that anyone who will use WMDs as an excuse for sending americans to their deaths and then joke about it is arrogant.

[Phil Kelly]

Does a bear shit in the woods ?????

whats worse ..arrogance combined with a determined avoidance of any intellectual curiosity about any facet of the world ..is doubly frightening ..



:deadhorse

[Zaggie Z]

Hmm, no, to be quite honest, I've never really seen President Bush as arrogant.
I don't agree with everything he's done, but I honestly don't feel it's our place to criticize him, considering his position. We should pray for him, and if you don't like him, then vote for someone else this Novemeber.

[Andy D]

Arrogant? Well I am not sure about this, what I am more sure about is that he seems to lack a basic awareness of what is happening in the World. This is not that uncommon to US Presidents, but in GW you guys seem to have elected a man who has limited knowledge, and in some cases seems to have little idea or care about the consequences of his policies.

In this context it is easy to see whay the chickens come home to roost:wink2:

Regards

Andy D.

[Saundra Hummer]

He is noted for his arrogance, and even his close associates in Texas have addmitted to believing that he is.

We had him appointed after several voter irrigularities in the state of Florida, polling stations having been moved, state police delaying people from them, etc. etc. The supreme court decided who it was that we should have as President. There are lots of us who beieve that this is the case, and nothing has happened or has been reported that has changed our minds about his being President. My attitude about the court has been changed forever due to their actions regarding our elections. I now feel that the choosing of judges, justices, needs to be changed. It needs to become more democratic in principle, a different way of selecting judges needs to be implemented, as now I feel we just can't put our trust in how they are selected, and in them any longer.

I have friends that are arrogant, I have relatives who are arrogant, and I tend to be myself at times, so I know it when I see it.

[Fran]

Originally posted by Zaggie Z
[
I don't agree with everything he's done, but I honestly don't feel it's our place to criticize him, considering his position. ]


This I cannot believe !!!!!!!

[jav]

The fact that so many think GW is a common person has driven me nuts from day one. Bush is one of the most arrogant human beings I have ever observed- and what Andy wrote I would echo!

[soshigaya]

His whole demeanor drips arrogant self regard. I find his manner loathsome and physically repulsive. He is the worst president, including Richard Nixon.

[Saundra Hummer]

With the combined arrogance of this administration, and it's total disregard for what is right, as it is their deep seated arrogance that is propelling their policies here in this country and around the world, we should be fearful of what else they may be dragging us into.

Then there is the arrogance of "Power."

[dwatts]

Like him or love him, he's definately arrogant.

--I honestly don't feel it's our place to criticize him, considering his position--

Huh? What is he, God? He's an elected official that is supposed to represent US. Of course we should criticize him when he's not representing us.

[3pointdeli]

i criticize god every day, so you can bet gwb gets his share.

[solarjazzband]

To have a president who's arrogant, is pretty dangerous. He knows he has a lot of power, and arrogance is not very good to be, so he just starting a war, because he has the power to do that.

Often, I think: "If the Dalai Lama of Tibet would govern the whole world, Earth will be a paradise!" Imagine it!

[joefont]

If you hate him, he's arrogant, if you like him he's confident.

[Noj]

I feel just like Saundra about Bush. He's not my President! I voted Gore all the way--no hanging or dimpled chad. I love how the news of black folks in Florida being unable to make it to the polls was quickly swept under the rug. :mad:

I don't see how that cocky smirk Bush has always got on his face could be taken as anything but arrogant. To top it off, Bush is the worst orator of any President in my lifetime. Totally unbelievable and uninspiring, complete with grammar and pronunciation errors--and the nerve to joke about the bold-faced lies he's told to justify sending Americans to die.

It is amazing the things these politicians expect people will look the other way about. Bush's brother is the Governor of the state where the election went weird. Bush's business associates in the oil business were the Bin Laden family. How many coincidences before the conspiracy becomes apparent?

The electoral college and appointed judges stand between America and democracy. Hopefully we'll get it right this time, another four years of this bullshit would really suck.

[Phil Kelly]

The scary reality of the situation is that thanks to all of DUBBya rich corporate friends, he has a MASSIVE amount of money to get himself re-appointed in November ..

..and now with Nader sticking his nose into things again, he's bound to bleed off just enough important votes from the Democrats to make this happen ..

all we can hope for ( and its slim ) , is that just enough of the Republican base is as fed up with DUBByas disastrous ecomnomic policys and massive debt creation to switch sides ..

if you really want this piece of garbage and all his cronies outta office come November, you MUST VOTE!!!!!

..and get EVERY SINGLE FRIEND REGISTERED ..AND MAKE SURE THEY VOTE AS WELL !!!!!!

:soapbox :thewave

[Saundra Hummer]

When G.W. started his run for the presidency, I had no firmly held belief's about thim, However, that changed, and swiftly. It became so obvious as to what was going on with he and his team, that I began to think we were in for it if he were to ever be elected, and I believe this is where we are today, we are floundering about in situations that are going to be extremely difficult to extricate ourselves from, fiscally, internationally, and morally. We are in a mess!

Think he is arrogant because of disliking him? No not really. I know arrogant people, and they can be likable, and I know people who aren't arrogant that aren't, for any number of reasons, so that isn't the reason for believing he is arrogant. He, as has been stated before, reeks of arrogance. He also has a side that I find charming, but politically, & morally, I find him him wallowing in an arrogance that is in the extreme, and like others, I find he and his coherts decision making to be dangerous. Face it, a lot of politicians on both sides are arrogant, but is their decison making so driven that they will ingnore the pleas of others? What other reason does he have to ignore people of greater wisdom than he? He and his administration show themselves to be so narrow in their "vison," and hell bent on doing it their way, that their (his), decision making has to be flawed. I find this very distrubing, and frankly so do others all around the world, people who are in the know a lot more than I ever will be.

[kh1958]

Bush thinks like a fundamentalist.

If you are with him, you are good; if you are against him, you are evil.

If you criticize him or contradict him, his administration will try to destroy you.

The administration's attempt to slander David Letterman for airing a satirical spot showing a bored to tears young man right behind George Bush making a speech is truly frightening.

[It Should be You]

On a tangential point, this administration seems incapable of even coming close to saying "Mistakes were made" (Reagan's famous line which really meant "I made a mistake.")

Take the 9/11 commission hearings. I have heard commentators question the Bush strategy. Why didn't they just come out and say something like "Hey. You're right. Our administration and the previous administration were just not seeing the imminent danger of terrorism, Al Qaeda in particular. But that was before 9/11. That day has changed us all, and now we are doing all we can to prevent another such catastrophe."

Mind you, I still wouldn't buy it, but I think most Americans would.

But no, the president is not even taking that stance. They're pretty much insisting they have always been on top of things. And they are besmirching the reputation of Richard Clarke.

I don't know if that's a sign of arrogance, but it's sure not a sign of intelligence. And it rubs some people the wrong way.

Did you see Rumsfeld give testimony? After a perfunctory blah blah blah explanation of what the administration has been doing, he switched in mid-stream to the posture of giving advice to Congress on new measures it needs to take to combat terrorism. He was being questioned and the next thing you know he's giving lectures!! Call that confidence if you like. Some people would call it blindness to criticism.

[Saundra Hummer]

About the Letterman thing, CNN says it made a mistake, that it never happened, they tried to reach Letterman to inform him, but he was already on the air, and had made his statements about it, before they could reach him. Anyway this is what was on Yahoo News this moring, however, I don't know what had evolved since then. Could be they did say and do more later, but I wouldn't know.

[3pointdeli]

i was bad mouthing letterman just last night, but my opinion of him has gone up considerably because he refused to apologize and called the accusations against him "absolute lies" (which, of course, they are), or something to that effect.

i still think letterman's sleazy, though.

[3pointdeli]

Originally posted by Saundra Hummer
About the Letterman thing, CNN says it made a mistake, that it never happened, they tried to reach Letterman to inform him, but he was already on the air, and had made his statements about it, before they could reach him. Anyway this is what was on Yahoo News this moring, however, I don't know what had evolved since then. Could be they did say and do more later, but I wouldn't know.

i have no reason not to believe you, but could you provide a link to a news story on cnn's mistake?

[Saundra Hummer]

It is on the Yahoo dial up version, sbcglobal.net.

I would imagine if you would go to CNN.com you would find the story.

I don't know how to send things but I will go back and check, but you willl have to look it up for yourself, as I don't have a clue how to send anything in to AAJ. If you want to send me an email I think there is a place to email a story.

I'll go looking right away.

[Saundra Hummer]

O.k. I did find this, I went on cnn.com, and I typed in David Letterman & CNN, and I got this link, among others.

Late Show With David Letterman: Wahoo Gazette.

Then I read the story, and perhaps it is a hoax, as this is the site to find out,

http.www.museumofhoaxes.com/aprilfool2.html

I went to this site after posting it, and it doesn't come in. changed the case on the L and it comes in now, but I didn't see that story, I will do some more looking.

[Saundra Hummer]

O.k. Did some more checking. Go to this place, type in Washington Post.com, and then type in "The T.V. Column" then it will be Lisa de Moraes April 1st. story about what CNN had to say and just what went on. Sounds to be a true story, but who knows??? Being it was "April Fools Day." It is all over google, and all over other sites.

[3pointdeli]

well, this is becoming a confusing story. thanks for looking for the article, saundra. your tips were helpful. i originally heard about this on the drudge report, a bush friendly pseudo-reputable news website. it was all over the internet this morning. seems that the kid was, in fact, at the speech and was bored, but he wasn't actually standing in the exact spot shown on the tape.

whatever the case may be, i'm glad dave didn't apologize for something he believed to be the truth.

[kh1958]

Leak: U.S. knew of Sept. 11 plans



WASHINGTON, April 2 (UPI) -- The U.S. administration knew of al-Qaida plans to target buildings with planes months before the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, a former FBI translator claims.

Sibel Edmonds, a former translator for the FBI with top-secret security clearance says she spent three hours giving testimony to the panel investigating the attacks, and told Britain's Independent Friday information was circulating within the FBI in the spring and summer of 2001 an attack using aircraft was months away and the terrorists were in place.

She rejected national security adviser Condoleezza Rice's claim there was no such knowledge as "an outrageous lie."

The newspaper said the Bush administration has sought to silence her and has obtained a gag order from a court by citing the rarely used "state secrets privilege."

The 33-year-old a Turkish-American woman who speaks Azerbaijani, Farsi, Turkish and English said she gave her evidence in Washington Feb. 11.

"I gave (the commission) details of specific investigation files, the specific dates, specific target information, specific managers in charge of the investigation. I gave them everything so that they could go back and follow up. This is not hearsay. These are things that are documented. These things can be established very easily."

[Saundra Hummer]

I think that I am warped,

The funniest thing I have ever seen on t.v. was on the Letterman show, and he said it was their least popular bit, the least funny of all of the skits that they ever did, but when it was on I couldn't even stand up for laughing, I just laughed and laughed until I had tears, and when Rich would call home on his break, I would be watching it and I couldn't even talk for laughing. I would explain the story to him and he thought it was so, so. Cute he thought, but he couldn't grasp the total humor of it, until one time, they put them on in re runs, and he laughed till he cried.

Larry "Bud" Melman driving to Tierria del Fuego. The misadventures that started happening were just so insane, and really pretty dangerous, yet there was humor, and when they had to leave their rental car at the border in Guatamala and ride a bus with the populace with their goats and chickens, no toothpaste, and no deodorant, no windows dirt roads, Rich was laughing as hard as I had, and it was as funny to me the second time around as it was when I first watched it

How insane was that to send a man of his age on such a dangerous journey? He enjoyed a Club Med, but broke his glasses in a fall and it all just went downhill from there.

"Please David I want to come home!", and "It isn't funny David!" were constant saying of his. South of Mexico City, he said the food became just horrible. I believe he being injured in the fall, black eye etc. changed everyones mind about the wisdom of such a trip, and they finally got he and his driver out of there. Luckily nothing seriously wrong happened, it could have been a total disaster.

David said those segments were failures, no one thought they were funny. I think it was terribly dangerous, but still couldn't keep from being overcome with laughter, and was everytime I thought about it for quite a while. What a cute man "Larry Bud."

[3pointdeli]

this is on the atlanta journal-constitution website:

Bush speaks, a boy yawns, then CNN and Lettermen get confused

By FRAZIER MOORE
The Associated Press
Published on: 04/02/04

Slide show of yawning boy

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NEW YORK -- What began on David Letterman's "Late Show" as a comedy bit needling President Bush turned into a comedy of errors when CNN incorrectly reported that the White House had cried foul.

Then Letterman — apparently not getting CNN's message that it had made the mistake until he was well into his Tuesday broadcast — only heightened the confusion.

The whole thing started during a collection of video clips Letterman showed Monday under the label "George W. Bush Invigorates America's Youth."

One showed Bush at a March rally in Orlando, Fla., standing at a lectern with several listeners behind him — among them, a boy in his early teens who could barely stay awake. While Bush spoke, the young man yawned, twisted his head, checked his watch and generally seemed dead on his feet.

Tuesday morning, CNN attempted to lighten its news mood by running the segment, credited to CBS' "Late Show with David Letterman," on its "CNN Live Today."

But then CNN host Daryn Kagan added: "We're being told by the White House that the kid, as funny as he was, was edited into that video, which would explain why the people around him weren't really reacting."

Later, during CNN's "Live From ...," anchor Kyra Phillips reran the tape but cautioned viewers: "We're told that the kid was there at that event, but not necessarily standing behind the president."

The truth was: The White House never complained, and the footage was real.

So is the lad: 13-year-old Tyler Crotty, son of Orange County Chairman and Bush supporter Rich Crotty. As the elder Crotty explained Thursday, Tyler was so excited about the prospect of seeing the president he couldn't sleep the night before.

While awaiting Bush's appearance, a lucky Tyler got a prime seat when a guest invited to sit on the dais didn't show. But the lengthy event took its toll on the tired youngster — and then on Letterman.

"This has gotten to be so silly and so complicated, and I don't want to go through it again because every day there's a new development, and we think now it's over," Letterman said on Thursday's show. "We hope to God it's over."

Not quite. Letterman announced that Tyler will be his guest Friday.

On his Tuesday telecast, Letterman aired Kagan's and Phillips' skeptical remarks and ranted: "An out-and-out, 100 percent absolute lie. The kid absolutely was there and he absolutely was doing everything we pictured via the videotape. ...

"So when you cast your vote in November," he urged, "just remember that the White House was trying to make ME look like a DOPE."

By then, CNN had owned up to its mistake, and placed a call to Letterman's New York headquarters before the 5:30 p.m. taping began. But the tape was already rolling before Letterman got the word.

"According to this," he said during the show, referring to an index card in his grasp, "CNN has just phoned and ... the anchorwoman misspoke. They never got a comment from the White House. It was a CNN mistake."

So then he wailed: "Now I've called the White House liars, and you know what that means — they're going to start looking into my taxes!"

Though CNN spokeswoman Christa Robinson noted that "we frequently air late-night comedy show clips," on Thursday she confirmed the "misunderstanding among our staff" surrounding the yawning-boy video.

Meanwhile, Kagan made an on-air show of contrition.

"Dave, we apologize for the error," she said, offering to come on his show for a Stupid Human Trick.

[Zaggie Z]

:laugh:
I guess we've kinda gotten off the subject, here, regarding Bush's "arrogance"... :rolleyes:

[Zaggie Z]

Zaggie Z said:
I don't agree with everything he's done, but I honestly don't feel it's our place to criticize him, considering his position.

Fran said:
This I cannot believe !!!!!!!

*Shrugs* Hey, it's my opinion. :wink2: And, oh yeah... you didn't quote the rest of what I said... I also said I think we should pray for him instead of criticizing.

I'm not a "fundamentalist" fanatic, and I'm not mega-conservative, but I am a Christian, and I do believe that we should respect him as our leader, because it is we who made him our leader. You don't have to pray for him (since many of you problably aren't Christians anyways), but if you've got a problem with him, griping and complaining about it really isn't going to make much of a difference, is it? Like I said, you can support someone else this November.

[kenny weir]

Originally posted by Zaggie Z
*Shrugs* ... because it is we who made him our leader.

It's your right to believe that, but there's folks around here who think otherwise!

And even without the Bush/Supreme Court brouhaha, there's a decent argument that could be put that electing your president is about not only the people's votes but a whole lot else (such as $$$$$$$$) as well.

[Saundra Hummer]

It is human nature after all , criticisim is something most of us partake in, even G.W. Remember the time he pointed out the newsman, a reporter for the New York times, if I remember correctly, to Chenney and told him that "He's a real asshole!" Chenney of course replied "Big time!" Another open mike gaff.

There are lots of us who aren't feeling any "Christian" charity towards these men, they have made it an impossibility.

[Zaggie Z]

Well, everyone's entitled to their own opinion. I'll sit back and watch a bit. :wink2:

[mickey/lynn]

Originally posted by Zaggie Z
*Shrugs* Hey, it's my opinion. :wink2: And, oh yeah... you didn't quote the rest of what I said... I also said I think we should pray for him instead of criticizing.

" because it is we who made him our leader. You don't have to pray for him (since many of you problably aren't Christians anyways), but if you've got a problem with him, griping and complaining about it really isn't going to make much of a difference, is it? Like I said, you can support someone else this November. "I" didn't vote for that bonehead, and no, I don't support him or anything his dad and James Baker are doing (you have to know those two are really running this country, not jr.- "him not too bright"). Yes Zaggie, you have your opinion, and I do respect it, I just don't agree with it:D

[Frank Mullen]

My Bush outrage of the day comes from the Washington Post. His Science adviser says it ain't so that the Bush administration trods on science. Of course in the article they do mention that the two guys on the Bioethics Committee who favored cell research were dismissed.
Meanwhile this field, rich in possible medical applications is being pursued by the rest of the world. The Brits are making stem cell lines available free to qualified researchers.
I get the opinion that this administration is bidding fair to be a theocracy.Don't you?

[Phil Kelly]

Originally posted by kh1958
Bush thinks like a fundamentalist.


I


"Bush Thinks" ..is a classic oxymoron..

:deadhorse


:thewave

[Saundra Hummer]

When it comes to stem cell research, these men who make the decisions of what is going to be researched, and what isn't, must have never had a loved one who might be helped by such research.

It is going to be done in other countries, and people here will be traveling to those countries to receive treatments in the future, just like people who now go into Canada, and Mexico to purchase medicines, as they are so much cheaper there. For instance, my father suffered from Glaucoma, and his medicine here in the States was $98.00 or so, and in Mexico it was $7.00. Same exact medication. Medical treatments will be easier to come by in foreign coutries, and much cheaper. They might even start surpassing us in their technology. This is just one branch of science that will be hurting because of this administrations short sightedness.

According to my doctor in California, who is on the board of directors at UCLA Mecidal Center, medicine was set back terribly by the Reagan Administration. How ironic! Now it is he who would have benefitted greatly from greater funding for research, funds which he had cut from several institutions, and sciences, let alone actual medical treatments. I benefited significantly from these grants and funds made available by the government, luckily they were in place when I needed them. Now it is gone, no more, and it seems that the government is taking even more away than the previous GOP Administrations did.

Science is going to be held back, others believe, because the Bush, Chenney administration is replacing highly qualified scientists with ones that have been termed as "Christian." I don't have all of the facts but have read this on the web, and I believe heard it on PBS, and/or on another on air news source.

How can this be? Why on earth would anyone want to do this? I have heard that these scientists have somewhat radical views, and that their qualifications are suspect to say the least. Again, how can this be?


I hope someone can prove me wrong here, I would love to hear that this isn't so.

[solarjazzband]

Originally posted by kh1958
Bush thinks like a fundamentalist.

If you are with him, you are good; if you are against him, you are evil.

If you criticize him or contradict him, his administration will try to destroy you.

The administration's attempt to slander David Letterman for airing a satirical spot showing a bored to tears young man right behind George Bush making a speech is truly frightening.


That sounds like communism.

[Saundra Hummer]

Missed that one. Maybe our times are different here, will have to check.

[soshigaya]

I'd say that the ongoing coverup of the motives for taking America and Britain to war in Iraq are considerably worse in scale than those of Watergate. Nixon and crew subverted the law to gain information illegally in order to gain a political edge over the democrats. Despicable behaviour for a president for sure and the resulting impeachment and resignation were very welcome.
I would suggest that Bush's taking your nation into a major war on the basis of lies and patently fabricated information is far worse. He has caused grave damage and deserves the highest penalties your legal system can throw at him, including , of course, removal from office.

[Phil Kelly]

Originally posted by soshigaya
I'd say that the ongoing coverup of the motives for taking America and Britain to war in Iraq are considerably worse in scale than those of Watergate. Nixon and crew subverted the law to gain information illegally in order to gain a political edge over the democrats. Despicable behaviour for a president for sure and the resulting impeachment and resignation were very welcome.
I would suggest that Bush's taking your nation into a major war on the basis of lies and patently fabricated information is far worse. He has caused grave damage and deserves the highest penalties your legal system can throw at him, including , of course, removal from office.


You're preaching to the choir here for the most part ..his actions are certainly much more worthy of impeachment that a bit of fellatio was ..but:

impeachment in this case would only leave you with Cheney ..whos just as bad if not more dangerous ..

we HAVE TO get rid of this whole scumbag crew ..REGISTER AND VOTE !! REGISTER AND VOTE !! REGISTER AND VOTE !! REGISTER AND VOTE !! REGISTER AND VOTE !! REGISTER AND VOTE !! REGISTER AND VOTE !! REGISTER AND VOTE !! REGISTER AND VOTE !! REGISTER AND VOTE !!



:mad2: :mad2: :mad2:

[soshigaya]

Not being an American citizen I don't have the pleasure of voting him out of office. I will have to leave that to you chaps.

[Saundra Hummer]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Phil Kelly
You're preaching to the choir here for the most part ..his actions are certainly much more worthy of impeachment that a bit of fellatio was ..but:

impeachment in this case would only leave you with Cheney ..whos just as bad if not more dangerous ..

we HAVE TO get rid of this whole scumbag crew ..REGISTER AND VOTE !! REGISTER AND VOTE !! REGISTER AND VOTE !! REGISTER AND VOTE !! REGISTER AND VOTE !! REGISTER AND VOTE !! REGISTER AND VOTE !! REGISTER AND VOTE !! REGISTER AND VOTE !! REGISTER AND VOTE !!



:mad2: :mad2: :mad2: [/QUOTE

Cheney isn't complicit? I think so!!!!

How about his dealings with the energy moguls, & the administration not being willing to help with the phonied up "Energy Crisis" that has cost us all plenty? Didn't carry California, so punish to the max.

They don't just need to be impeached, it sounds like huge fines and perhaps even jail time is in order.

[Noj]

Originally posted by Noj
I feel just like Saundra about Bush. He's not my President! I voted Gore all the way--no hanging or dimpled chad. I love how the news of black folks in Florida being unable to make it to the polls was quickly swept under the rug. :mad:

I don't see how that cocky smirk Bush has always got on his face could be taken as anything but arrogant. To top it off, Bush is the worst orator of any President in my lifetime. Totally unbelievable and uninspiring, complete with grammar and pronunciation errors--and the nerve to joke about the bold-faced lies he's told to justify sending Americans to die.

It is amazing the things these politicians expect people will look the other way about. Bush's brother is the Governor of the state where the election went weird. Bush's business associates in the oil business were the Bin Laden family. How many coincidences before the conspiracy becomes apparent?

The electoral college and appointed judges stand between America and democracy. Hopefully we'll get it right this time, another four years of this bullshit would really suck.

Nice drunk post from me. Usually I try to be more even-handed, this time I went WAY left...good thing I'm not a politician. :embarass: :laugh: :wink2:

[Saundra Hummer]

Cute Noj,

I think a lot of posts, not just your's are so inspired. Glad I don't drink at home, ha! Then it could get even weirder!

[Noj]

Honestly Sandi, that's a gut-level reaction from me. I don't trust the Bush administration one bit. Someone, anyone, feel free to tell me why I should.

[Saundra Hummer]

Have you ever know anyone who tells so many untruths, that they end up believing what they have told is actually factual? They become totally indignant when you confront them about their duplicity? This is what this administration reminds me of, someone believing their own falsehoods. Recognizable isn't it?

[Frank Mullen]

When I think about all the young guys who are getting killed and mained for this shitheads crazy ideas, I just about go wild
This is getting as bad as Vietnam, and there is zero justification for it besides this guys stupid ego. This is the worst administration I can remember, and I remember Nixon all too well.

[Saundra Hummer]

Who was it that was saying that this is far worse then Nixon's Watergate? Was it Ted Kennedy? There are others saying that this is worse than Viet Nam because of the falsehoods that were used to get us all into this mess, and it isn't just us, look at the poor countries that we armtwisted into sending their men over there to die.

If it had been to fight terrorism, fine, but we have set up a breeding ground for terrorism with our invasion of Iraq.

I know nothing of handling policy, administrating programs, but I really do believe I could have foreseen most of the problems that we are encountering, and would have had programs and men in place to implement them, and hopefully prevent a lot of what is happening today.

First things first. Medical, the army and religion, utilities, grievance commitites, provisions, continuity. A full plate, but doable. WE didn't even have enough medical supplies there to treat everyone that needed help. Little children turned away, a little girl burned, injured by our military, or becase of our being there, and she was turned away by our doctors, (and it just made them sick,) because of insufficient medical supplies. We do this? Sure, we have citizens here in our own country doing without medicine too, so why should we be surprised at our policies overseas? The people who decide upon thse matters have the best health coverage in the world, take that away from them making it contingent upon what the rest of us have, and see how fast they put a viable health program into place for the rest of us. Off course here, but I am wth Noj, & Frank, this administration is driving me wacko, too many problems to even bitch about all of them, but these are a few that are at the top of my list.

[3pointdeli]

if bush isn't wiping his glasses on david letterman's producer's shirt he's verbally insulting people in front of audiences. arrogant? that's putting it lightly.

Bush compares a guest to his mother
- - - - - - - - - - - -

April 6, 2004 _|_ EL DORADO, Ark. (AP) -- President Bush has a penchant for dishing out good-natured insults, and usually the victim laughs along. But Sammie Briery didn't seem much amused when Bush fired one at her Tuesday.
Bush was wrapping up a town hall-style appearance at South Arkansas Community College when he let the jest fly. It was a mother joke, a blonde joke and an insult all in one.

"You and my mother go to the same hair-dye person," Bush said to Briery, whose blondish bob bore little resemblance to Barbara Bush's shock of white hair.
The audience in the gymnasium laughed, and Briery smiled, but replied firmly: "President Bush, I'm a natural blonde."


"Oh, yes," Bush agreed.
"I'm just a natural blonde," she repeated.
"I couldn't help myself, sorry," Bush shrugged.
With that, Bush moved quickly to end the session. He turned to Bob Watson, superintendent of the El Dorado Public Schools -- who had opened the meeting by inadvertently insulting Bush.
"Governor -- excuse me, President," Watson said.
Bush muttered, "How quickly they forget."
When Watson offered to shake Bush's hand, the president shot back: "Just don't hug me."

[Saundra Hummer]

Couldn't find the John Dean program, so missed it entirely, thought they might rerun it in a different time slot, but couldn't see it anywhere. I would have liked to see it, sounds like he is like minded about about these things.

Just terrible, and now this Iraq thing is blowing up into a deadly ordeal for evryone, Iraqi's threating to burn people alive and feed them to their fighters. That would be like us saying that we were going to do the same to them and feed them to the swine.

I saw a lot of Rice's testimony today, and what a waste of tax payers money, pat answer's to expected questions, and filibustering when a tougher question was asked. An amature could have handled this in the ten minutes each panel member was alloted, she is a pro at deflection, so in ten little minutes, it was a piece of cake. Nothing learned, nothing admitted, no change in thinking from the administration, business as usual.

Brave men Cheney and Bush, wonder if their brains work as swiftly as Rice's? Would ten minutes do them in? Why the fear? Where is their tap dance routine? Not really needed, we know the truth of the matter, and we know their attitudes and what their answers would be, they just wouldn't be as plesant, their mannerisms not as polite. They too would dance around and skirt the issues.

[soshigaya]

As a naive non American, might I be permitted to ask what the hell Bush is doing down on his farm when a war is raging in Iraq with US troops dying every day ? I guess he is so of control it it doesn't matter where he is .

[kh1958]

Bush is constantly on vacation. I believe that in the period immediately preceding September 11, he was on vacation for a month or more.

[Chris A]

I believe it was Newsweek that looked into this and found that he has spent 40% of his time in the court-appointed job away from the White House. As Cheney might say, he's not in the loop. :D

I guess it's a new concept of "leadership," just as Iraq represents a new concept of "democracy" and "liberation."

[Saundra Hummer]

Off the subject here, but did any of you notice where Ken Star is heading? Pepperdine U. Denied he would, but there he goes!

[Phil Kelly]

and then ther's the twing Bush /Cheney Wayland Flowers and Madam appearance before the 9/11 committed ..

guess the ubersturmfuhrers can't chance DUBBya to open his mouth unscripted.. without his puppeteer..

but: it's all nothing anyway ..because its not under oath ..

..and we'll never get to "see it " ..only predigested and approved soud bites.

I still can't understand the huge portion of America that STILL support these neo -fascistic criminals..

:tearhair:

[mickey/lynn]

Wayland Flowers and Madam...HAHAHA! I was drinking coffee when I read that Phil, sputtered right out of my mouth onto my screen!

I agree with you, it's mind-boggling to me the number of people who support that creep...our "president". I guess that's why I have such strong, often negative opinions of my fellow countrymen, there is no way he should be running anything, let alone a country!! He is just plain stupid and I am from the school of thought that presidents should be somewhat intelluctual (has anyone read any of those "Bushisms" books? Pretty hilarious, but after reading a few pages, I stopped and thought to myself, "this clown is the president of the country I live in? I got mad and couldn't read anymore) He is our showcase to the world, no wonder so many people oustside of the US think of us as Arrogant, ignorant nincompoops.
(I realize that a lot of people thought that about Americans well before Bush, I just think it's worse now)


Say what you want about Clinton, at least the man was smart and knew something about the world outside of the US. Remember the story of how during the campaign, a reporter asked Bush to show him where Israel was on a map of the Middle East? He didn't know!!! Then he got mad at the reporter! Now, in all honesty, I might have failed that test also, but I would have tried to handle my embarassment with a little more tact than that! Is that arrogance?

And you would think, with the Israeli/Palestinian conflict being such a big issue, that this guy would at least know where the darn place is! He's no president, he's a frat-boy!


I see a movie...the hilarious story of how Mike woke up from a drunken stupor after a rad keg party, to find out that he has been elected president, not of the fraternity, of the USA!

(Mike's reaction)

Mike: "Dude- Fuckin' A!!!!!! Can I call my dad?"

Any screenwriter's on the board?

:wink2:

[Phil Kelly]

great idea:

I can see either Will Ferrell or Adam Sandler as perfect for DUBBya ..

maybe Jason Alexander for Cheney ..

Steven Colbert ( of the Daily Show ) as Rummy ..

Larry David as Paul Wolfowitz ..


Dave Chapelle as Colin Powell ..


and maybe Eddie Murphy in drag as Condi Rice ..


I'll have my people call your people so we can take a meeting ..or do lunch



( or is it you DO a meeting ..and TAKE lunch ?? ..I could never keep that straight )


:thewave:





...

[mickey/lynn]

That's a totally kick-ass cast you put together there Phil!

It's starting to gel now...we have to get some writers on board, find some money, I think I have a couple of bucks...

Hey baby, I'll have MY people call YOUR people and we'll do lunch. Ciao....


:smokin:

[Tenorman]

You think you have problems. Our foreign secretary whose name I don't want to remember, said he was surprised at the level of violence in Iraq. Every punter in a pub with two brain cells to rub together predicted this, and our foreign secretary is surprised???

How do these people get elected?

I have a couple of friends who are policemen. They say that they hate being called to a "domestic". They arrive, and one or other spouse is beating the shit out of the other. They separate them and both of them turn on the police. Sound familiar?

When will our politicians learn - They ignore the places that really need their help, like Rwanda and Liberia and walk in to a political and social minefield like Iraq. Should I mention that 4 letter word OIL (OK it's three but you know what I mean)

Greedy, Greedy , Greedy!

[Saundra Hummer]

It is just the type of people who run for office, you know the type, not someone you would ever want to go into business with, as you would know how that venture would turn out. Self seeking, do any to promote themselves, while telling God and country they are answering a higher calling. Yeah, right!

[Tenorman]

They are thinking about making voting compulsory here. I would agree providing they put in a box saying "None of the above". If "None of the above gets most votes then all parties should be required to put up different candidates.

Groucho Marx once said that he would not join any club that would have him as a member. I don't want to vote for any candidate who actually wants to be a politician. The major requirement seems to be, to be a total stranger to the truth

[Wombat Seedcake]

Arrogant, stupid and a liar. Looks like the only reason for this war was he wanted to finish off what daddy started. He's also reneged on a whole number of pre-election promises like safeguarding the environment not to mention his recent anti gay marriage legislation. All he cares about is looking after his mates in the oil, timber and auto industries and screw the rest of us. That sap Blair better watch his back 'cos Bush'll dump him when he's no longer any use. A

[Frank Mullen]

Once again WSC's voice from the past comes back to describe our present lot in Iraq. He described this area sometime just after the first world war as "an ungrateful volcano" Since Bush is ignorant of history and probably of WSC he wemt charging into Iraq with all flags flying and here we are with another 87 guys dead this month and counting. History will surely define Bush as the most ignorant and stupid president we've had. Combine that with arrogance and his sense of following God's commands and he's also the most dangerous president we've had.

[Katzman]

Last year when 'Dubbya' vistited London, Major Ken Livinstone described him as the biggest threat to world peace. Either he is as ignorant as he makes out and he is being pupetted around by less public republican policy makers, horrid little skemmers, or he is'nt as ignorent as he makes out, in which case his purposely projrcts a false persona in order to screen his real horride little intentions. See You Next Tuesday...the real meaning of the word bush:D

[Saundra Hummer]

Nixon was impeached, and G.W. is sliding through it all with a sheepish grin on his face while he stamers and fumbles around like an 8 year old caught taking money from his moms purse.

Here is a site that is working for change, working to get rid of this blight on the planet, this administration.

There is an online petition to sign onto if you are a registered voter.

They also keep keep people imformed as to the works people are doing to try and rid themselves of these selfseeking less than honest men.

Here is the site.

moveon.org

They have a way to send imformation out to likeminded friends, so have fun boys and girls.

I for one am joing this organization.

[Saundra Hummer]

Nixon was impeached, and G.W. is sliding through it all with a sheepish grin on his face while he stamers and fumbles around like an 8 year old caught taking money from his moms purse.

Here is a site that is working for change, working to get rid of this blight on the planet, this administration.

There is an online petition to sign onto if you are a registered voter. This is a petition requesting that our representatives "Censure" GW Bush.

They also keep keep people imformed as to the works people are doing to try and rid themselves of these selfseeking less than honest men.

Here is the site.

moveon.org

They have a way to send imformation out to likeminded friends, so have fun boys and girls.

I for one am joing this organization.

[Saundra Hummer]

Just when we think it can't get any worse, we have men, a lot of whom have never really worked in a pay by the hour, 9 to 5 job, making policy and rules governing working mens and womens wages.

GW Bush is trying to push through his program of not paying overtime to employee's of large companies. How can this be?
How can this be accepted by anyone? This is one time that the Christian Coallition, (most of whom are 9 to 5'ers themselves) should be banding together to uphold our right to be paid a decent wage. Often that wage is dependent on overtime, as regular wages are often times not enough to subsist on. They know they are a powerful voting block, and I would think that they would be against this law with everything that is in them.

The men making these rules have no idea what is is like to struggle just to earn enough for the bare neccessities, much less the niceties that a decent wage provides. Not a clue. GW himself has never worked any length of time in a actual job, one he has earned on his own merits, content to ride into all types of situations and positions on his fathers coattails. That is a situation which very few Americans are in, or can understand for that matter. We, most of us, have made our successes on our own. How is it that we will allow men such as these the capability of deciding what it is we can, and cannot have without putting up a struggle to see that they only do the right things, not cater to lobbyists and their special interest clients.

There is a site, I will give it again, called.... movingon.org

They are starting a letter writting campaign hoping that congress, and the people will take notice, and urge our politicians to not sign onto something that will be so devestationg to our own workforce.

[Fran]

After reviewing the posts I have arrived at the conclusion that - HE IS - by a vote of approximately 97 to 1. And you who are 1 knows who you are. :rolleyes:

[Saundra Hummer]

Oh that we would definately be in the majority! I am afraid that the people in the C.C. outnumber us drastically, and since they are being led about by members of this administration, and the likes of Pat Roberts, and Jerry Falwell, we have our work cut out for us in the future.

[Noah Peterson]

Being a former Marine myself, I find it hard to effectively judge our leaders in times of war. War leaders cannot be forthcoming to the media in this age. Disinformation is part of the strategy to win any war. In this technological age, we won't know what really happenned until years after it's over.

I try to take the pragmatic view of, what do we do now?

We're there and we're killing them and they are killing us. I won't speculate on what I don't know, I will only judge by what I do know. We are working with them to give them a new government where they, just like we, can have debate on issues, criticize and replace their leaders through, give minorites a voice in the government. I like my life and my political freedoms, the choices I have, the comparative wealth I am surrounded by, my complusory public education, I appreciate the disruption of the WTO and the bible thumping Moral Majority. We have a civilized country where opinons change and power changes hand at the whim of the voting geogrpahic populace. (For those of you upset over the election - I'd suggest starting a movement to dispense with the electoral college so your "he lost the popular election" argument can have merit.) As a rule of co-operative behavior we don't kill each over ideas in this country. And spreading that to other countries and dispensing with tyrants is not only a good thing, but it's part of the Monroe Doctrine and the Marshall Plan and we've been doing it for years.

We're not an imperialist nation. We're the only dominant force in history to radically give up our colonies and return a lot of property to it's original inhabitants without revolution. That's not to say we've done everything, or even most things right - but our history is around 400 years old. And that counts colonization. We're dealing with cultures, some more than 10 times our age who still practice slavery, treat women as second class citizens, rountinely butcher their own people and haven't been able to make peace in thousands of years with their neighbors. It also happens that their sitting on a lot of oil and disrupting our economy.

Would we be there if there was no oil? I don't know. What I do know is our fighting men who get interviewed believe in what we're doing. We are trying to give power to the people and the only people trying to stop it are those labeled as terrorists. I'm sure we don't have and won't get all or even most of the details. But from what I can see, we are helping an oppressed people who have no idea how to get along and play well with others. There's a lot about this mess that doesn't make any sense.

Is Bush arrogant - I don't know. His statements are guarded, his moves bold, his alliances and endorsements, well... bizarre. I won't even try to guess what he's up to. But remember we're at war aand look at his statements as words coming from a President at war. They might seem a little different.

[Saundra Hummer]

I"m happy that our troops believe in what they are doing, as it would be terrible for them to feel like our troops felt in Viet Nam. Feeling that you might be injured or die for a lost cause in an immoral war would be terribly disheartening.

I am free to criticize this administration, and GW Bush for not doing all they can do to back these overstretched troops. Just because he has put us into this war doesn't mean I have lost my right to have opinions and the right to disagree when I feel he is wrong.

If GW Bush, and his admnistration were so concerned about the troops then why is water a problem, then there is the lack of munitions, having to retreat from won positions to rearm. If they are going to be sent into war, give them all they need to be as safe as they can possibly be, and to be able to accomplish whatever it is they are asking of them. They, after all, are giving their all. The sacrifices these men and women are making are extreme. The sacrifices their families are making are extreme. We are behind them 100%. However, we are against foolish policies, foolish goals, & foolish men.

We are all for getting rid of Sadam and his regime, all for it, but level with us, be truthful with us. Level with the countries we halfway tried to draw into a coallition, then perhaps they would have joined us, at least the trust they had in us wouldn't have been destroyed. We have lost our credibility in the world. Will they believe us again, when perhaps the stakes are higher?

I hear a lot of people say that they could care less how other countries feel about us, and to a point, I tend to feel that way, but that's a dangerous path to go down. This is a smaller world now than we would have ever imagined it to be. We are a community, and we need to act accordingly using all of our skills to make it a cohesive unit, not torn apart by Xenophobic ideals. Look where that has led the Arab states and nations. They want all of our technology with out any of societies advancements, and human rights, making it hard to advance the course of events in a favorable direction. I just don't think that this administration is going about it correctly. The correct way? When it comes to the Middle East, what is that? Does anyone really know?

The arrogance of power can be destructive, and one just needs to look at what is happening now to understand this. A series of events in a power struggle brought about by arrogant men.

[Fran]

Originally posted by Noah Peterson
Being a former Marine myself, I find it hard to effectively judge our leaders in times of war. War leaders cannot be forthcoming to the media in this age. Disinformation is part of the strategy to win any war. In this technological age, we won't know what really happenned until years after it's over.

----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ---- ----- -----


Is Bush arrogant - I don't know. His statements are guarded, his moves bold, his alliances and endorsements, well... bizarre. I won't even try to guess what he's up to. But remember we're at war aand look at his statements as words coming from a President at war. They might seem a little different.

I think you are still brain washed from your Marine days.

[Frank Mullen]

Well I'm a former sailor and I disagree with both you and this administration. Nobody is arguing that Saddam was anything but a first class sob,but the way this was done without the UN has led us into this morass. And it's a genuine feeling for the marines and GIs that causes me to want to get this arrogant idiot out of office.

[Noah Peterson]

Hi Sandra,

Very nice and thoughtful response. I think your ending questions sum up a bit of what I was attempting to say - we don't how to deal with people who are unable to make peace among themselves. I don't think it's arrogance at all. I think it's a good thing.

[Saundra Hummer]

O.K. Frank, here is another site, maybe you have already seen it, maybe it is the one you have been telling me about?

bushflash.com


Songs, articles, humor and the hope of ridding the U.S. of this president. Haven't read it all, as I just received an email about it, containing a song, and photo flashes to accompany it.

to hear the song go to: www.ericblumric.com

Same place

[Frank Mullen]

Thanks Sanci

I'm off to investigate the Bush site right now.

[Frank Mullen]

I was just listening to CNN and heard that Bush is planning to go to Normandy on June 6 to honor the dead of DDay. They don't need his "honoring". Arrogant bastard!

[Phil Kelly]

I wonder if the pinhead in chief will have the balls to wear his faux military flight suit garb yet again ..

you know things are going downhill for DUBBya when he'd rather show up in FRANCE than take the heat in Washington ...


:deadhorse

[1ngram]

USA not an imperialist nation? You've got to be kidding me! Starting with Cuba and the Phillipines (read "Little Brown Brother") at the beginning of last century it has used both its economic and military power to install and maintain some of the most brutal dictatorships in history all over the globe and some of the most racist governments that have ever existed like Israel. Anytime there has been a genuine effort by the peoples of any area to take control the US has got its local goons like Marcos or Duvalier or the Shah to crush it or, if that hasnt worked it has gone in itself like it did in Grenada or Vietnam. South and Central America has been a US killing ground for over half a century with Death Squads trained, equipped and financed by the US through the CIA. They got away with it for most of the period because they could claim their opponents were tools of an equally appalling terrorist power, the Russians but now that that bunch of mass murderers have had to pull their horns in somewhat that particular fig leaf has gone and the sheer brutal rapacity of the USA has been exposed for us all to see. The US didnt invade Iraq to liberate the people there - thats the last thing they want and would be a first! They want to take the place over, ideally through a bunch of amenable thugs - like Chalabi - whom they have groomed for power so as to control both Iraq's oil and to place their power in the heart of a vital region. I see that Chalabi's nephew is the prosecuting officer for the proposed trial of the USA's former tool in Iraq, Saddam. One of Chalabi's cousins has been put in charge of oilfield and oil line security which allows him to raise a private army funded from Iraq's oil revenues. Others of his associates have already been installed in key ministries. Bringing democracy to the people of Iraq? Don't make me laugh!

[Saundra Hummer]

This man who has been out of Iraq for decades, isn't related to by the Iraqi's, they feel they have nothing in common with him, they believe, and so do I, that he would be an American puppet, and they don't want him.

We've seen what damage our puppets have wrecked in the past, so why on earth would we try this failed policy again!

We are paying this man $300,000.00 a month, that is obscene!

We had to fight this government of ours for 20 years over a small amount of money which we were capable of paying, which was turned down by them. Fibs were told by their man for this region, as one of his best friends wanted this ranch, and he darned near got it. It has been a mess over something like $1,500.00. This is a long, long, story, and one that sounds like a fairy tale, so I won't bore you with it, but because of their less than honest ways, it cost us over $275,000.00, and over $50,000.00 in attorney fees, and no telling how much they spent fighting us. So their giving this man this kind of money is to me, a sinfull act, and one which needs to stop. Wherelse, and at whom, are they throwing more money to? I would imagine it would choke a horse. All of this when they do less than honorable things to our own citizens financially.

The arrogance of Bush and this administration is amazing, in their belief that they can do as they please, and not have to pay consequences, and the public be damned. Destruction, and mayhem, are following everything that they are doing, and we shouldn't have to be paying this price.

Had they opened up the contracts to all of the world into the rebuilding of Iraq, then, maybe we could feel that there were other reasons for this war than revenge for G Bush senior, and for making a bundle for corporate America, then maybe we would think that the reasons given had a wee bit of creedence, but as it is, we know differently, and so does Iraq, and the world.

Was, and is, Iraq so important that we are willing to lose the rest of the world over our policies there? Doubt it! But that is exactly what is happening at a rapid rate, and how are we to undo this damage on all fronts?

Saw this interesting little tidbit on Yahoo I believe and here is the story. This was in Canada, but it is how a lot of people here in the U.S. are feeling; an elderly man, a "senior citizen," pulled into a gas station and filled his tank, paid the attendant $20.00 for a $25.00 fill up. left his name, and address ,with a note saying to come, and arrest him because he wasn't going to pay more for the gas than it was worth. Something like those words. Wonder what will happen to him, :soapbox and wonder if more people will follow suit? Doubt it, but brave of him wasn't it?

[Saundra Hummer]

Here is another reason for needing campaign finance reform. If you think that these people have the country's best interest at heart, well think again.

Go to the Washington Posts' May 16th story about the Pioneers.

Go to WashingtonPost.com. Then find the story:
Pioneers Fill War Chest, Then Capitalize.

It is amazing, and no wonder things are in such a mess.

Sensible changes are really in order, however they will learn how to circumvent any new laws. just as hackers worm their way into computer systems and the havoc is real with both computers and politics.

[BFrank]

Maybe not arrogant.........just incompetent.

+++

House Democratic Leader Pelosi calls Bush 'incompetent'
Thursday, May 20, 2004
(05-20) 01:36 PDT SAN FRANCISCO (AP)

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi called President Bush "incompetent" and said he is responsible for hundreds of deaths of U.S. soldiers in Iraq.

"Bush is an incompetent leader. In fact, he's not a leader," Pelosi told the San Francisco Chronicle in a 45-minute interview Wednesday in her Capitol office. "He's a person who has no judgment, no experience and no knowledge of the subjects that he has to decide upon."

Pelosi, a San Francisco Democrat, is a frequent critic of the president and led the effort against the war in 2003. But this was her strongest criticism of Bush to date.

"He has on his shoulders the deaths of many more troops, because he would not heed the advice of his own State Department of what to expect after May 1 when he ... declared that major combat is over," Pelosi said. "The shallowness that he has brought to the office has not changed since he got there."

The White House dismissed Pelosi's comments as partisan politics.

"It's clear that the election season is drawing near, and there are those who will pursue politics over policy," White House spokesman Ken Lisaius told the newspaper. "That doesn't change the fact that the president is focused on winning the war on terror, protecting our homeland security and strengthening our improving economy."

Pelosi also said the only way to get allies to commit more troops to Iraq is to have a new president.

"Not to get personal about it, but the president's capacity to lead has never been there," Pelosi said. "In order to lead, you have to have judgment. In order to have judgment, you have to have knowledge and experience. He has none."

[Saundra Hummer]

I saw her on PBS tonight and she is being blamed for partisan politics, when they themselves are doubting his judgement, just shows the hypocrisy of a lot of politicans and politico's that surround he, and Cheney, who I feel is the real brains behind all of the screw ups, Bush doesn't have the time of day, to have it all be his doing, or so I have always believed.

On top of this, have you read the Washingtoin Post article about "No Rich Kid Left Behind!"???? If not, go to their online news and look up their most mailed stories, and it is there with a few others that are telling. This is another travesty and a terrible policy initiated by this administration, and we aren't to think that things are going to hell in a hand basket?

A lot of GOP leaders, ones with a sense of decency are begining to challange the Bush/Cheney programs and policies, not giving them a free ride to the destruction that they seem determined to heap on all of us.

This reminds me, where in the world is Condoleza Rice? Sure scarce since her talk, and talk forever appearance in front of the 9/11 commission. Never have I heard anyone talk for such a long period of time, and say nothing. She has it down to an art.

More and more people are beginning to think like Nancy Pelosi, and good thing they are, as this administrations policies, and programs, need to be challanged, and stopped.

[BFrank]

Where's Condi?

The Boondocks knows ...

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/uc/20040520/lbo040521.gif

[kh1958]

Bush Administration solves prisoner abuse scandal by renewed commitment to Geneva Convention (Just Kidding).

Rumsfeld bans camera phones
From correspondents in London
May 23, 2004


MOBILE phones fitted with digital cameras have been banned in US army installations in Iraq on orders from Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, The Business newspaper reported today.

Quoting a Pentagon source, the paper said the US Defence Department believes that some of the damning photos of US soldiers abusing Iraqis at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad were taken with camera phones.

"Digital cameras, camcorders and cellphones with cameras have been prohibited in military compounds in Iraq," it said, adding that a "total ban throughout the US military" is in the works.

Disturbing new photos of Iraqi prisoner abuse, which the US government had reportedly tried to keep hidden, were published on Friday in the Washington Post newspaper.

The photos emerged along with details of testimony from inmates at Abu Ghraib who said they were sexually molested

[Saundra Hummer]

This banning will anger a lot of soldiers I am sure, as well as their relatives and loved ones at home. Thought that Rumsfeld was smarter than that, as now that there are photos' that all of us have already seen, and records of them, we will believe any tall tale that will be coming out of Iraq, Afghanistan, or any other country our troops are in.

You can't do any good closing the barn door after the horse is already out and running. We will, we really will believe almost anything anyone has to say after this mess.

[BFrank]

Oh, YEAH. Don't fix the problem or make anyone accountable on a command level.................just clamp down on freedom of speach and civil rights.

It's the Amerikan way, after all.

[BruceH]

He's always smirking too.

Tell me about it! Every smirk is like he's saying, "Hey, I was born rich and well-connected, I'm the most powerful man in the world, and I don't give a crap what anyone else thinks! Nyah, nyah nyah!"

[BruceH]

"Digital cameras, camcorders and cellphones with cameras have been prohibited in military compounds in Iraq," it said, adding that a "total ban throughout the US military" is in the works.


"We must find and destroy the weapons of mass documentation." --Jon Stewart

[Phil Meloy]

The Iraqi prisoner abuse story seems to be taking a further squalid turn with the London "Independent" today reporting that the military police reservists actually planned to cash in on the videos and photographs taken in Abu Graib prison. Talk was apparently spreading around the 372 Military Police Company that a home-made video production was soon to be made commercially available. It appears likely that the "star" of the film is Lynndie England of West Virginia who has already been identified as appearing in many, as yet unpublished pictures of abuse and with her fellow soldiers in what are best described as compromising situations. On being informed of the latest sick twist in this disgraceful saga Tony Blair the British PM was said to be "apoplectic".

[patricia]

The Iraqi prisoner abuse story seems to be taking a further squalid turn with the London "Independent" today reporting that the military police reservists actually planned to cash in on the videos and photographs taken in Abu Graib prison. Talk was apparently spreading around the 372 Military Police Company that a home-made video production was soon to be made commercially available. It appears likely that the "star" of the film is Lynndie England of West Virginia who has already been identified as appearing in many, as yet unpublished pictures of abuse and with her fellow soldiers in what are best described as compromising situations. On being informed of the latest sick twist in this disgraceful saga Tony Blair the British PM was said to be "apoplectic".


Phil, you're not really surprised, are you?? I hate to single out Lynndie England, but she seemed totally unapologetic about her involvement in this totally disgusting episode. She has no shame at all and attitude and the smirk that she exhibited, when asked about her involvement was truly disturbing to me.
Even stereotypical trailer trash are embarrassed by this abberration. :soapbox

[Saundra Hummer]

Sorrid, Squalid, Disgusting! Words to try to describe indescribable acts, acts which we find so reprehensible as to just want to toss everything to the wind, and say what's the damn use!

Words can't really describe how most of us feel, all of you included I am sure, as we couldn't even begin to imagine such acts by smiling, willing participants in such filth and brutality. I'm at a loss of words to describe my feelings about the England girl, and her coherts. She does act self righteous, and smug, perhaps a defense effort on her part, but it makes her look less than human. There are superiors to those lowly personel, and to say that they didn't know what was going on is beyond belief, and if they didn't know, which most of us believe they surely did, they should have and, since it is most certain that they did know and even ordered it, they themselves should be court martialed, and if there is any doubt, then they should be dismissed for lack of performance in their duties. They should all be gotten rid of, each and everyone of them. Dereliction of duty in the extreme, if not war crimes.

We have suffered the greatest humiliation in our recent history due to these actions by the lowest personel, their commanding officers, and on up the chain of command. These acts must ultimatly lie at the feet of the Secretary of Defense, the Vice President and the President.. The shame over these acts is overwhelming, and has destroyed our credibility around the world for yet another time. Lack of common sense in this administration abounds, and where is the compassion that we used to hear so much about, where is the ability to heal and bring together that was espoused, and ttouted in so many pre-election promises? If we believed all of that, then maybe we deserve what we are getting, a big quagmire that is sucking us all in.

[kh1958]

Lack of common sense and decency apparently is abundant. I've seen many letters to the editor and heard many comments to the effect that focusing on this outrage is unpatriotic. It makes you wonder what things have come to here, that anyone can defend and rationalize such a disgrace.

[Phil Kelly]

..the you can take it up to the bathroom and read it in pieces, and then appropriately "recycle" the paper...

scary stuff to follow:


yet more ....long , but informative and disgusting as usual...


pk





With trembling fingers
As Iraq goes from bad to worse to apocalyptic

BY HAL CROWTHER

I used to take a drink on occasion with a network newsman famed for his impenetrable calm -- his apparent pulse rate that of a large mammal in hibernation -- and in an avuncular moment he advised me that I'd do all right, in the long run, if I could only avoid the kind of journalism committed to the keyboard "with trembling fingers." I recognized the wisdom of this advice and endeavored over the years to write as little as possible when my blood pressure was soaring or my face was streaked with tears. The lava flows of indignation ebb predictably with age and hardening arteries, and nearing three-score I thought I'd never have to take another tranquilizer -- or a double bourbon -- to keep my fingers steady on the keys.

But I never imagined 2004. It would be sophomoric to say that there was never a worse year to be an American. My own memory preserves the dread summer of 1968. My parents suffered the consequences of 1941 and 1929, and my grandfather Jack Allen, who lived through all those dark years, might have added 1918, with the flu epidemic and the Great War in France that each failed, very narrowly, to kill him. Drop back another generation or two and we encounter 1861.

But if this isn't the worst year yet to be an American, it's the worst year by far to be one of those haggard wretches who comment on the American scene. The columnist who trades in snide one-liners flounders like a stupid comic with a tired audience; TV comedians and talk-show hosts who try to treat 2004 like any zany election year have become grotesque. Our most serious, responsible newspaper columnists are so stunned by the disaster in Iraq that they've begun to quote poetry by Rupert Brooke and Wilfred Owen. They lower their voices, they sound like Army chaplains delivering eulogies over ranks of flag-draped coffins, under a hard rain from an iron sky.

Yeats' "blood-dimmed tide is loosed." The war news had already deteriorated from bad to tragic to pre-apocalyptic, which left no suitable category for these excruciating reports on the sexual torture of Iraqi prisoners. Fingers, be still. In less than a year, the morale of the occupying forces had sunk so low that murder, suicide, rape and sexual harassment became alarming statistics, and now the warriors of democracy -- the emissaries of civilization -- stand accused of every crime this side of cannibalism. Osama bin Laden has always loathed America's culture, as well as its geopolitical influence. To him these atrocities are a sign of Allah's certain favor, a great moral victory, a vindication of his deepest anger and darkest crimes.

Where does it go from here? The nightmare misadventure in Iraq is over, beyond the reach of any reasonable argument, though many more body bags will be filled. In Washington, chicken hawks will still be squawking about "digging in" and winning, but Vietnam proved conclusively that no modern war of occupation will ever be won. The only way you "win" a war of occupation is the old-fashioned way, the way Rome finally defeated the Carthaginians: kill all the fighters, enslave everyone else, raze the cities and sow the fields with salt. Otherwise the occupied people will fight you to the last peasant, and why shouldn't they?

If our presidential election fails to dislodge the crazy bastards who annexed Baghdad, many of us in this country would welcome regime change by any intervention, human or divine. But if, say, the Chinese came in to rescue us -- Operation American Freedom -- how long would any of us, left-wing or right, put up with an occupying army teaching us Chinese-style democracy? A guerrilla who opposes an invading army on his own soil is not a terrorist, he's a resistance fighter. In Iraq we're not fighting enemies but making enemies. As Richard Clarke and others have observed, every dollar, bullet and American life that we spend in Iraq is one that's not being spent in the war on terrorism. Every Iraqi, every Muslim we kill or torture or humiliate is a precious shot of adrenaline for Osama and Al-Qaeda.

The irreducible truth is that the invasion of Iraq was the worst blunder, the most staggering miscarriage of judgment, the most fateful, egregious, deceitful abuse of power in the history of American foreign policy. If you don't believe it yet, just keep watching. Apologists strain to dismiss parallels with Vietnam, but the similarities are stunning. In every action our soldiers kill innocent civilians, and in every other action apparent innocents kill our soldiers -- and there's never any way to sort them out. And now these acts of subhuman sadism.

Since the defining moment of the Bush presidency, the preposterous flight-suit photo-op on the U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln in front of the "Mission Accomplished" banner, the shaming truth is that everything has gone wrong. Just as it was bound to go wrong, as many of us predicted it would go wrong -- but more hopelessly wrong than any of us would have dared to prophesy. Iraq is an epic train wreck, and there's not a single American citizen who's going to walk away unscathed.

The shame of this truth -- of such a failure and so much deceit exposed -- would have brought on mass resignations or votes of no confidence in any free country in the world. In Japan not long ago, there would have been ritual suicides, shamed officials disemboweling themselves with samurai swords. Yet up to this point -- at least to the point where we see grinning soldiers taking pictures of each other over piles of naked Iraqis -- neither the president, the vice president nor any of the individuals who urged and designed this debacle have resigned or been terminated -- and a strained apology had to be practically dragged out of Bush by the media. These people have betrayed no familiarity with the concept of shame.

Thousands of young Americans are dead, maimed or mutilated, hundreds of billions of dollars have been wasted, and all we've gained is a billion new enemies and a mouthful of dust -- or sand. Chaos reigns, but in the midst of it we have this presidential election. George Bush has defined himself as a war president, and it's fitting that he should die by the sword -- in fact fall on it, and quick. But even now the damned polls don't guarantee, or even indicate, his demise.

Conventional wisdom says that an incumbent president with a $200 million war chest cannot be defeated, and that one who commands a live, bleeding, suffering army in the field is doubly invincible. By this logic, the most destructively incompetent president since Andrew Johnson will be rewarded with a second term. That would probably mean a revived military draft and more wars in the oil countries, and, under visionaries like Dick Cheney and Paul Wolfowitz, a chance for the United States to emulate 19th-century Paraguay, which simultaneously declared war on Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay and fought ferociously until 90 percent of its male population was dead.

What hope then? Impeachment is impossible when the president's party controls both houses of congress, though Watergate conspirator John Dean, who ought to know, claims in his new book that there are compelling legal arguments for a half dozen bills of impeachment against George W. Bush. Peer pressure? At the White House, world opinion gets no more respect than FBI memos or uncomfortable facts. Many Americans seem unaware that scarcely anyone on the planet supported the Iraq adventure except the 40-50 million Republican loyalists who voted for George Bush in 2000.

Among significant world leaders, he recruited only Great Britain's Tony Blair -- whose career may be ruined because most Britons disagree with him -- and the abominable Ariel Sharon, that vile tub of blood and corruption who recently used air-to-ground missiles to assassinate a paraplegic in a wheelchair at the door of his mosque. (Palestinians quickly squandered any sympathy or moral advantage by strapping a retarded 16-year-old into a suicide bomber's kit. Such is the condition of the human race in the Middle East, variously known as the Holy Land or Cradle of Civilization.)

The rest of the known world, along with the United Nations, has been dead set against us from the start. But they carry no weight. Thanks to our tax dollars and the strong but not bulletproof bodies of our children -- though mostly children from lower-income families -- George Bush and his lethal team of oil pirates, Cold Warriors and Likudists command the most formidable military machine on earth. No nation, with the possible exception of China, would ever dare to oppose them directly.

Nothing and no one can stop these people except you and me, and the other 100 million or so American citizens who may vote in the November election. This isn't your conventional election, the usual dim-witted, media-managed Mister America contest where candidates vie for charm and style points and hire image coaches to help them act more confident and presidential. This is a referendum on what is arguably the most dismal performance by any incumbent president -- and inarguably the biggest mistake. This is a referendum on George W. Bush, the worst thing that has happened to the United States of America since the invention of the cathode ray tube.

One problem with this referendum is that the case against George Bush is much too strong. Just to spell it out is to sound like a bitter partisan. I sit here facing a haystack of incriminating evidence that comes almost to my armpit. What matters most, what signifies? Journalists used to look for the smoking gun, but this time we have the cannons of Waterloo, we have Gettysburg, we have enough gunsmoke to cause asthma in heaven. I'm overwhelmed. Maybe I should light a match to this mountain of paper and immolate myself. On the near side of my haystack, among hundreds of quotes circled and statistics underlined, just one thing leaped out at me. A quote I had underlined was from the testimony of Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg trials, not long before Hitler's vice-fuhrer poisoned himself in his jail cell:

"...It is always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country."

Goering's dark wisdom gained weight when a friend called me and reported that Vice President Cheney was so violently partisan in his commencement speech at Westminster College in Missouri -- so rabid in his attacks on John Kerry as an anti-American peace-marching crypto-communist -- that the college president felt obliged to send the student body an e-mail apologizing for Cheney's coarseness.

If you think it's exceptionally shameless for a man who dodged Vietnam to play the patriot card against a decorated veteran, remember that Georgia Republicans played the same card, successfully, against Sen. Max Cleland, who suffered multiple amputations in Vietnam. In 2001 and 2002, George Bush and his Machiavelli, Karl Rove, approved political attack ads that showed the faces of Tom Daschle and other Democratic senators alongside the faces of Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden. Somewhere in hell, Goering and Goebbels toasted each other with a schnapps.

Am I polarized? I've never been a registered Democrat, I'm sick of this two-party straitjacket, I wish to God it didn't take Yale and a major American fortune to create a presidential candidate. The only current Democratic leaders who show any courage are Nancy Pelosi and old Bob Byrd -- Hillary Clinton has been especially cagy and gutless on this war -- and John Kerry himself may leave a lot to be desired. He deserves your vote not because of anything he ever did or promises to do, but simply because he did not make this sick mess in Iraq and owes no allegiance to the sinister characters who designed it. And because his own "place in history," so important to the kind of men who run for president, would now rest entirely on his success in getting us out of it.

Kerry made a courageous choice at least once in his life, when he came home with his ribbons and demonstrated against the war in Vietnam. But Sen. Kerry could turn out to be a stiff, a punk, an alcoholic and he'd still be a colossal improvement over the man who turned Paul Wolfowitz loose in the Middle East. The myth that there was no real difference between Democrats and Republicans, which I once considered seriously and which Ralph Nader rode to national disaster four years ago, was shattered forever the day George Bush announced his cabinet and his appointments for the Department of Defense.

I'm well aware that there are voters -- 40 million? -- who don't see it this way. I come from a family of veterans and commissioned officers; I understand patriots in wartime. If a spotted hyena stepped out of Air Force One wearing a baby-blue necktie, most Americans would salute and sing "Hail to the Chief." President Bush cultivated his patriots by spending $46 million on media in the month of March alone. Somehow I'm on his mailing list. Twice a week I open an appeal for cash to crush John Kerry and the quisling liberal conspiracy, and now I own six gorgeous color photographs of the president and his wife. I'm sure some of my neighbors frame the president's color photographs, and fill those little blue envelopes he sends us with their hard-earned dollars.I want to reason with my neighbors, I want to engage these lost Americans. What, exactly, makes you angry, neighbor? What arouses your suspicions? Does it bother you that this administration made terrorism a low priority, dismissed key intelligence that might have prevented the 9-11 catastrophe, then exploited it to justify the pre-planned destruction of Saddam Hussein, who had nothing to do with Al-Qaeda? All this is no longer conjecture, but direct reportage from cabinet-level meetings by former insiders like Richard Clarke and Paul O'Neill.

If the Pentagon ever thought Saddam had "weapons of mass destruction," it was only because the Pentagon gave them to him. As Kevin Phillips recounts in American Dynasty, officials of the Reagan and first Bush administrations eagerly supplied Saddam with arms while he was using chemical weapons on the Kurds. They twice sent Donald Rumsfeld to court Saddam, in 1983 and 1984, when the dictator was in the glorious prime of his monsterhood.

This scandal, concurrent with Iran-Contra, was briefly called "Iraqgate," and, yes, among the names of those officials implicated you'll find most of the engineers of our current foreign policy. Does any of this trouble you? Does it worry you that Dick Cheney, as president of Halliburton Corporation, sold Iraq $73 million in oilfield services between 1997 and 2000, even as he plotted with the Wolfowitz faction to whack Saddam? Or that Halliburton, with its CEO's seat still warm from Cheney's butt, was awarded unbid contracts worth up to $15 billion for the Iraq invasion, and currently earns a billion dollars a month from this bloody disaster? Not to mention its $27.4 million overcharge for our soldiers' food.

These are facts, not partisan rhetoric. Do any of them even make you restless? The cynical game these shape-shifters have been playing in the Middle East is too Byzantine to unravel in 1,000 pages of text. But the hypocrisy of the White House is palpable. If there's one American left now who actually believes that Operation Iraqi Freedom was about democracy for the poor Iraqis, then you, my friend, are too dangerously ignorant to be allowed near a voting booth.

Does it bother you even a little that the personal fortunes of all four Bush brothers, including the president and the governor, were acquired about a half step ahead of the district attorney? Or that the royal family of Saudi Arabia invested $1.476 billion in those and other Bush family enterprises? Do you know about Ahmad Chalabi, the shyster who is the administration's favorite Iraqi and Cheney-Rumsfeld's erstwhile pick to be that country's next ruler, whose personal fortune was established when he embezzled several hundred million from his own bank in Jordan and fled to London to avoid 22 years at hard labor?

You say you vote for the president because you're a conservative. Are you sure? I thought conservatives believed in civil liberties, a weak federal executive, an inviolable Constitution, a balanced budget and an isolationist foreign policy. George Bush has an attorney general who has no respect for Americans' rights, and a vice president who demands more executive privilege (for his energy seances) than any elected official has ever received. Between tax cuts for his high-end supporters and three years playing God and Caesar in the Middle East, George Bush has simply emptied America's wallet, with a $480 billion federal deficit projected for 2004, and the tab on Iraq well over $100 billion and running.

"A lot of so-called conservatives today don't know what the word means," Barry Goldwater said in 1994, when the current cult of right-wing radicals and "neocons" had begun to define and assert themselves. Goldwater was my first political hero, before I was old enough to read his flaws. But his was the conservatism of the wolf -- the lone wolf -- while today's is the conservatism of sheep.

All it takes to make a Bush conservative is a few slogans from talk radio and bumper-stickers, a sneer at "liberals" and maybe a name-dropping nod to Edmund Burke or John Locke, whom most of them have never read. Sheep and sheep only could be herded by a ludicrous cretin like Rush Limbaugh, who compared the sexual abuse of Iraqi prisoners to "a college fraternity prank" (and who once called Chelsea Clinton "the family dog" -- you don't have to worry about shame when you're brainless).

I don't think it's accurate to describe America as polarized between Democrats and Republicans, or between liberals and conservatives. It's polarized between the people who believe George Bush and the people who do not. Thanks to some contested ballots in a state governed by the president's brother, a once-proud country has been delivered into the hands of liars, thugs, bullies, fanatics and thieves. The world pities or despises us, even as it fears us. What this election will test is the power of money and media to fool us, to obscure the truth and alter the obvious, to hide a great crime against the public trust under a blood-soaked flag. The most lavishly funded, most cynical, most sophisticated political campaign in human history will be out trolling for fools. I pray to God it doesn't catch you.







:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Saundra Hummer]

Phil, thank you for posting this editorial. Really, thank you!

[patricia]

Yes Phil. Thank you. It has always puzzled me why Americans seem to identify themselves and even their families with one or the other political party, and yet be unable to explain why they are Republican or why they are Democrat. Making a flat-out statement, aligning oneself with one or the other out of tradition or habit, without being able to explain your party's current policies, IMO, borders on madness. :eek:

[Phil Kelly]

I really suggest that everyone on this list cut and paste that article and send it to EVERYONE in your address book ..regardless of political leanings ..

You make get some neo-con flambes in return, but if you manage to make even ONE republican actually THINK about what's been going on and cause him to stop following the DUBBya lemmings off the cliff and chage his vote, it all helps ..

Those of us here in the "choir" realize we are in for a blizzard of negative half truth bullshit in the coming months due to the giant mismatch in funding available in the ultra right neo con warchest ..

again, fir the author: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Saundra Hummer]

I just sent a fellow on my Trocadero.com site a letter inviting him to join us here on AAJ. A bit of politics were being discused, very little, but enough to send him a page from our political thread.

He is concerned about Bush backers and their conection with voting machines. and is going to vote absentee so his vote can't be manipulated.

We are hearing now about stolen elections since electronic voting was instituted. Not surprising when the powers that be have always found out ways to manipulate the system.

[Phil Kelly]

Your friend might have reason to be concerned ..

The largest manufacturer of electronic voting devices is the Diebold Corp. of Canton Ohio ..( best known peviously for making safes of all sizes )

The Diebold family and the corporation have been staunch ..make that rabid ..GOP supporters for many years.

[Saundra Hummer]

Say Phil, do you remember Ken Star saying he wasn't going to be entertaining any proposal from Pepperdine? That he would not accept a position with them? I wish I remembered more about it and the man doing the hiring, but I don't. Need to go and refresh it all. I just know that there were denials after denials that it wasn't a political witch hunt they were on, and it just didn't ring true, and this acceptance of this position there, makes me believe it was not an unbiased search for the truth as he kept insisting it was. Not that I ever thought otherwise.

I think that all of this controversy has just lined Bill Clintons pockets, it has backfired into those who wanted to punish him and make him a laughing stock. He was humilated, for a bit, but they went so far overboard that after a while it were as if what he had done was nothing compared to the partisan witchhunt they were conducting. It just got old, and people got sick and tired of them.

Like he told Newt Gingrich, he is like that knockdown toy, he just keeps getting back up, and so far he is right.

Just wonder what you have heard about his, Ken Star's accepting the Pepperdine position there. Payback? There I go looking for ulterior motives in everything. Hard not to with these men. Or, as I call them when I am talking to Rich, "clowns."