Homerecording - whats the cheapest solution?

[Karl]

I've been doodling around with an old cassette player to record what I play just to hear myself and find things to improve. But the quality is way too low to hear all those little details.
Also, i'll need to record with, say 4band to be able to make my concepts of new pieces or grooves audible to my band, which would make work with my band a LOT easier.
What I want to record should not have top-quality, but I do want the sound to be clean and clear, I want to be able to get it into my computer and it should not be expensive at all. There are microphones for $40 that would fit my needs, but what else will I need? And how much $ will it be?
Thx for any help :)

Karl

[Saundra Hummer]

I've been doodling around with an old cassette player to record what I play just to hear myself and find things to improve. But the quality is way too low to hear all those little details.
Also, i'll need to record with, say 4band to be able to make my concepts of new pieces or grooves audible to my band, which would make work with my band a LOT easier.
What I want to record should not have top-quality, but I do want the sound to be clean and clear, I want to be able to get it into my computer and it should not be expensive at all. There are microphones for $40 that would fit my needs, but what else will I need? And how much $ will it be?
Thx for any help :)

Karl


We had a Pioneer cheap record player/radio with a double tape cassette deck that you could either record from a tape or from a record or from the radio. It was better that some high end recorders, but not as good as all of them. If you could pick up a used one on eBay or elsewhere, that would be the ticket, as it is so easy to use and has a mike hook up as well. we never purchased the micraphone, planned to, but just never did. thre must be some used ones around, we still have ours, and it needs some repairs due to being dropped, but other than that, it was a work horse and would still be in good shape I'm sure.

[Tenorman]

Most of my friends are using portable Minidisc recorder/players to record themselves. Two channel only, but the quality is good. You will have to use the input on your sound card to get it on to the PC

[draupner]

The minidisc solution is really good, especially if you have a nice stereo mic. The next level is to use a computer, soundcard and microphone then you can record directly onto the harddrive.

[jlee]

Why not record direct to your computer, provided that it's set up conveniently near your performing equipment or you have a laptop? All you'd need is an inexpensive bit of software, like Cakewalk Express ($20-30) -- there may be freeware available, I don't know -- and a very cheap adaptor to connect your microphone to your soundcard. I doubt you'd need any special soundcard for your application, and if you need to record more than one track, a cheap mixer from Behringer, for example, should work fine. I do this all the time with a mid-end laptop, stock soundcard, a Shure SM57, and Cakewalk Express -- just set the levels, hit record, and you're all set to record for a GOOD long while. I'd like to use a Minidisc, but this solution works just as well, if not better, and is far cheaper -- you can spend your money on a good microphone/stand/soundcard (like the Indigo IO if you have a laptop -- I use the Indigo without inputs for playback), a decent mixer, or high-quality plug-in effects like reverb, or whatever. If you need any more direction, I or anyone else who's done this should be able to get you up to speed in just a few minutes. Simple and elegant.

[Tenorman]

I'd still go for MD. Slips into a pocket. The discs are the most indestructible medium around. You can then transfer to any other digital medium you want. A Mini-Disc will cost $100 or less. If it gets stolen, you still have your discs at home. If you cart a lap-top around you lose a lot more in cash if it gets nicked, and you can bet that when it does, you won't have backed up for a few weeks

[jlee]

Great point! That would suck to lose your laptop or crash the hard drive with hundreds of hours of great stuff on it.

I had no idea Minidisc recorders were so affordable. I'd still record straight to hard drive if I were in my apartment -- as a keyboard player, I tend to be tied to some pretty bulky equipment, but I can see where a pocket-sized recorder would be VERY handy. I just might pick up a minidisc recorder for on-the-fly stuff or even just for convenience. Can I ask how you can adjust the levels to avoid clipping? How much does the media cost? Is there a built-in condenser mic on some models?

Thanks,

John.

[Tenorman]

John,
I assume you are in the US, and the product availability is different from the UK. There are a couple of MD threads on this site, and one of them mentioned a general MD site something like Minidisc.com or similar.

I haven't seen an MD with a built in microphone. They are already squeezed down to a minimum and a condenser mike would take up room.

Re clipping. The people I know who use them don't seem to have the problem, BUT, they are not using them to record for public consumption. The levels are far wider than tape, but you are still going to get that auto cut off. All I can suggest is to try the Web

[mattieb]

Regarding Minidisc, make sure to look at the Hi-MD models, which allow you to directly upload tracks to your PC. The upload process is currently filled with loads of Digital Rights Management crap, but i think there are hacks around it

(I think Sony's software allows you to burn an uploaded track to CD - from where you can rip the track off again into a fully accessible, modifiable WAV track [for example]).

Plus, if you want quality recordings, the Hi-MD's let you record in PCM mode, which should be the same bit-rate and uncompressed quality as CD.

Though the Hi-MD are more pricey than standard models, I don't think they're massive, as long as you don't go for the bells and whistles.

[jkelman]

Regarding Minidisc, make sure to look at the Hi-MD models, which allow you to directly upload tracks to your PC. The upload process is currently filled with loads of Digital Rights Management crap, but i think there are hacks around it


Do the HDs actually allow bidirectional downloading/uploading? My older, non-HD model lets me go from PC => MD, but not the other way around. I'd LOVE to be able to upload from MD => PC!
John

[mattieb]

Do the HDs actually allow bidirectional downloading/uploading?

Yes, they should do.... Note I don't own one, but I am thinking of getting one. Hi-MD players can play standard minidiscs and the new style, DVD-density versions, but uploads are only allowed on the newer version discs (don't ask me why!)... The HiMD discs are high-capacity, and as I said have a better range of storage options. Because Sony is having a fit about Digital Rights Management, however, I think there are restrictions on what you can *do* with the uploaded files, once they're on your PC (AFAIK)... I think this restricts - for example - the number of times you can burn files to CD, and copy tracks to other minidisc units...????? Not sure, better check for yourself if you're looking to buy one! This is a good site: MinidiscT board (http://www.minidisct.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=39). As I mentioned, above, however, there are hacks around this (?) - burn to CD, and then rip off CD back onto your harddrive...??

Don't take my word for it, though... Look at the minidisct.com site + forums for better info...

[Donny]

After a dozen or so live jazz recordings (club) on mini disc, I've finally managed to crack the problem I was having with overloaded drums on the recording. I used the manual record volume selection instead of the auto. With the volume turned up halfway, it has turned out brilliantly. The only problem with live mini disc recordings is that they always seem bass light. Still using some computer software, something like Nero Mix you can add some bass.

Personally I record from my mini disc (full size) to CD-RW and then stick it on my hard drive for editing. I then record from the hard drive to record as many CD copies as I wish.

[clave]

but uploads are only allowed on the newer version discs (don't ask me why!)...

I'm a bit confused -- do you mean that Hi-MD allows digital uploads to a computer, or simply uploads? (Analog, like regular Net MDs...)

[mattieb]

AFAIK, Net-MD only lets you download tracks from PC->MD, and you can't pull these off again.

Hi-MD let's you transfer music files from PC->MD, *AND*, lets you transfer music files from MD->PC. 2 way transfer compared to Net-MD's one-way...

You can only upload tracks that have been recorded with a Hi-MD device onto Hi-MD formatted (Hi-MD or standard) minidiscs. You can't upload old tracks that you recorded a year ago on a standard minidisc (AFAIK)....

Look at any of the minidisc sites, or sony's site, for more info...

[mattieb]

Perhaps, though, a clarification:

I don't own Net-MD (nor Hi-MD!) so don't take just my word for it: As I understand it, Net-MD lets you download music files from your PC to your MD. I don't *think* you can specifically upload these, again. There exists some DRM thing where you can 'check-in' (or out) music files, so that you can only copy, say, 3 copies of a file to multiple minidiscs, but as I understand it, this isn't specifically **uploading**, really just deletion.

Hi-MD lets you upload and download anything to your heart's content. This includes the uploading of tracks you have recorded on a mini-disc through a mic or line input. There will probably be some DRM stuff on some files to prevent unlimited copying/up/downloading (I think that's stuff you'd buy from Sony:Connect, for example, and I think things which are recorded by optical in?... Actually, the restictions on these types of files may be pretty harsh). Also, because the Hi-MD uses a different file structure (?) the uploading is not compatible with recordings you've made on old discs... Though a Hi-MD player will play old and new discs, and can reformat old disks into higher density format (?) you can't pull off any **old** recordings....

As I say, check out people who know more about this than I do minidisc.org (http://www.minidisc.org), minidisct.com (http://minidisct.com/)

[solarjazzband]

Cheapest is recording on your computer, I guess you already own one.

[clave]

From Mindisc.org:

11/2: Sony (finally!) garners their Hi-MD customers' votes: Clay reports that Sony has released their Wav Conversion Tool that converts uploaded Hi-MD recordings into Windows ".wav" format audio files. From there they may be easily converted to MP3 or burned to CD.

The original HI-MD no more allowed uploading than any of the other ATRAC-format MDs did... So there's your answer.

For the WAV Converter Plus, click here (http://sonyelectronics.sonystyle.com/walkmanmc/wav.html). (For HI-MD only, unfortunately.)

[DWBass]

I'm gathering that this (http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/IRIVER-H320) is going to be the newest and best 'sketchpad' type recorder and in a years times may be the standard. I'ver read about many musicians using this to record their bands rehearsals and such. The description doesn't give much insight into live recording though.

[clave]

I'm gathering that this is going to be the newest and best 'sketchpad' type recorder and in a years times may be the standard. I'ver read about many musicians using this to record their bands rehearsals and such. The description doesn't give much insight into live recording though.

I wonder about this, since (per another thread on MD) hard drives can crash. for my money, removeable media would be the best option (barring a perfect hard drive, that is).

[MisterY]

Hi, people! Help!
I need an advice for my decision: RODE NTK/ K2 or AKG C 414 B-ULS/C 4000B?
My aim is to record acoustic instruments:
1 Nylon and steel guitars, tar, saz, sitar, dulcimer, kanun, celtic harp
2 Cello, violin, fiddles, hurdy-gurdy
3 Vocals, different fluts, bagpipe, mizmar and other reed instruments
4. Dawul, darboukka, djembe,dholak, tambourin, bells, shakers and other low- and hi percussion.

I would like to have a SPL GainStation1 and two mics, a small condensor AKG C 451B for categories 1 + 4 and a large condensor for categories 2 + 3 and partly 1 + 4 (celtic harp, nylon guitar; low percussion)
Which large condensor would you suggest? RODE NTK/ K2 or AKG C 414 B-ULS/C 4000B? More expensive equipment is not available for me right now.
Thanks alot
Andronik from Germany

[tpt1]

I need an advice for my decision: RODE NTK/ K2 or AKG C 414 B-ULS/C 4000B? MisterY, if you don't get responses to your specific question on this forum you may want to post to: http://studio-central.com/phpbb/
There's a forum on microphones there.

[Gerry]

I'd come down on the side of the 414, it is one of the best utility mics available. I'd also suggest always buying mics in pairs, in this case a pair of 414s. 414s will do just about anything a 451 will do except get out of the way of a drum stick.

[iShawn]

I recently got a Firepod Recording Interface for home recording, plus all the analog mic ins so that I can record live situations, and combos and stuff I might be in. I am very excited to start with it, and musiciansfriend.com sent me a MXL 990 Condenser Microphone with it. It's very nice, with the shockmount, standard mount, and some other things, but I don't want to mess it up before I even start to record, so I have a few questions:

1)Does it require Phantom Power?

2)What is the shape of the mic in there? Should I hold it directly in front of the surface (like vocalist's mouth, guitar amp, ect.)?

3)What do you suggest for live situations (mics, setups, etc.)?

[paragsatyal]

I recently got a Firepod Recording Interface for home recording, plus all the analog mic ins so that I can record live situations, and combos and stuff I might be in. I am very excited to start with it, and musiciansfriend.com sent me a MXL 990 Condenser Microphone with it. It's very nice, with the shockmount, standard mount, and some other things, but I don't want to mess it up before I even start to record, so I have a few questions:

1)Does it require Phantom Power?

2)What is the shape of the mic in there? Should I hold it directly in front of the surface (like vocalist's mouth, guitar amp, ect.)?

3)What do you suggest for live situations (mics, setups, etc.)?

nice mic!
yeah i think it requires phantom power (most condensers requires it)
condensers are pretty sensitive mics...so during recording sessions keep a sort of filter (you can find them in music shops i guess) between the vocalist's mouth and the mic. also maintain a fair distance...about 1 feet for the vocalist and about 2 feet for instruments ( you might want to put sound absorband material on the walls if you don't want natural reverb).
i do not suggest you to use it in live situations...a shure sm58 or sm57 is a better subsitute for live settings (or any good dynamic mics)

[Donny]

After some pretty good live jazz recordings with mini disc, I've just taken the plunge and bought a Tascam DP 01 FX, hard disc recorder, for both live jazz recordings and home recording.

I've just done my first recording. Results fantastic.

BUT....... a few niggles.

No back light on the display and in a dimly lit club there I was flicking a cigarette lighter on and off to see the meters (a drag).

Once you've got the levels right (no overload light flashing on and off) leave the bloody thing alone, I didn't and turned down the volume too much in one number and got varying volume levels (which you can adjust fortunately when playing back). You can also add equalisation for bass and treble when playing back to your recording medium. I'm recording mine on to mini disc but you can record digitally or analogue to any recording medium or straight to computer using the USB 2 output (I haven't tried that yet).

Although you can record eight tracks on to the machine, you can only record two similtaneously, which is a bit of a drag if you want to add drum parts to CD tracks. To do that you have to record the CD tracks first on to the machine and then record the drum tracks to the existing CD tracks.

Big benefits, it sounds wonderful AND it has a 40 Gig hard disc. I recorded over 5 hours of live music last week and only used 2.5 Gig of spacespace and at £320 it was a breakthrough in price and quality by Tascam.

As I've only had for a week I'm still learning but as a musician review of this machine on the net said "I don't want a recorder that by time I've learnt to use it, I've forgotten how to play my horn and this is it"