DAB Digital Radio?

[mattieb]

Hi, I'm living in Britain, and trying to decide whether to buy a digital radio... Some people say it's great, some people say the quality's rubbish... Just wondering if anyone on this board has had experience with it - is it a worthwhile investment...???

[GA Russell]

I live in North Carolina and have no idea what you're talking about!

Do the same stations broadcast in both analog and digital, or does digital provide you with music you wouldn't otherwise hear?

[clave]

Mattieb,

I just came up with this (http://www.bbc.co.uk/digitalradio/) -- I guess you'll have to ask others from the UK, as we have nothing like this in the US.

[peter rh]

I have a Roberts Gemini 5 DAB/FM/RDS (mains/battery)-I bought it originally
for my father but he prefers the FM radio provided in his TV.
DAB radio maybe the future as with digital TV (don't new digital TV include
digital radio?) but I much prefer the sound of FM radio, particularly music.
I use an FM tuner in my hi-fi set up, and a FM tuner on my computer to record
music. It depends on the individuals requirements with regard to type of listening
and portability but I don't see many advantages for DAB radio when FM reception is about average - car radio DAB could be a winner. If you are mainly
interested in speech based programms, DAB might be worthy but still boarderline.
Prices are now down to around £50 and could fall more - I wouldn't think there
any reason to rush - get a decent quality FM tuner and enjoy quality sound.

[Donny]

I've got digital radio on my TV Sky package, sound is certainly no better than FM and I've heard that some broadcasts are highly compressed making it worse than ordinary FM. However although many more radio stations are available in the UK than on FM, have you seen the crap that is on them. If there were half a dozen decent jazz stations available I'd be there but most of them are broadcasting the most unbelievable garbage so what's the point.

[clave]

Actually, a lot of US cable TV companies offer digital music channels, but the kind of hardware you're discussing isn't for sale here.

I wonder if the sound is as compressed as it is on satellite radio broadcasts here...

[peter rh]

clave - have you explored the BBC Radio Jazz programmes? most are available
by playback :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/jazz/ (just follow the links)

[mattieb]

Hi, thanks for the comments...

I'm thinking about upgrading my stereo to a separates system, and have always thought about DAB radio, though only as a novelty at this stage (not to replace FM)... However, Cambridge Audio have just released their 640T which combines FM and DAB in a single box (£200).

I'm just wondering whether to get a cheaper FM tuner, or pay a bit extra for DAB. Money's tight!! Don't want to make a stupid decision!!!

Anyway, cheers - I'll have to think about it a bit longer!!

- Matt

[peter rh]

Matt - I'd buy the best FM Tuner I could afford and leave DAB for later

[Donny]

Cambridge stuff has been getting some great press. I'd go for the combined tuner but is there anything in the UK to listen to that isn't on FM, which with a decent external ariel is still damn good. You never know, there could be someone out there who thinks a commercial jazz program is worth putting on in the UK.

Sorry I've got to go, I've just seen some flying pigs.

[Bev Stapleton]

I came close to buying a DAB radio - as far as the counter! The nice checkout lady did a searchy first and discovered that where I live can't receive the main BBC stations yet!

Worth checking. I'm sure in the next couple of years we'll all be within range (well, maybe not in Stromness!).

[Tenorman]

Digital broadcasts should in theory be better than FM, BUT in order to get more channels out on air, the BBC have restricted the bandwidth of each digital channel to the point that radio 3 (the classical and some jazz programme), is reputedly on a smaller bandwidth than it's FM equivalent.

If it is Hi-Fi you are looking for, and don't have a good local radio station broadcasting digital, then stick with FM and get a decent aerial

[fent99]

Been thinking about getting a digital tuner myself. FM is plagued by N.London pirate stations spilling onto R3...
An alternative starting point might be a freeview box. I bought one for the extra BBC TV channels (Bought on a Friday they broadcast a Tyner Hutcherson Quartet). £50 gets you the extra tv channels and lets you hear the extra radio ones (I quite like the 30-something indieness of Radio 6). The digital radio aint too hi-fi through the box but it has no interference and sounds pretty reasonable. Would only imagine a decent piece of kit would sound better.
I'm sure the government has a 10 year plan to switch off the analogue transmitters so something dual would be good in the long term?

[clave]

clave - have you explored the BBC Radio Jazz programmes? most are available by playback : http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/jazz/ (just follow the links)

Peter rh,

Thanks for the info. -- I know the archives are very extensive, but if I started listening to everything I'd like to hear, I'd be at my computer 24 hours a day... I wish there was some way to listen to these shows on my stereo without having to worry about a computer linkup.

[Bev Stapleton]

I use Freeview to listen to the radio now. Not hi-fi but fine for me. The only irritation is the occasional glitch you get with digital TY where it seems to stall for a second or two.

I listen online a fair bit - largely catching BBC progammes I've missed or those put on very late. I recently linked up the computer to the stereo so I can listen away from the computer.

[peter rh]

the future of DAB ? :http://www.johnlewis.com/Shopping/Product.aspx?ARA=Gifts+%26+Flowers&CAT=Gifts+for+Him&SCT=Gifts+for+Him&PRT=Technology&Type=SKU&Id=230197977

Local radio stations are fine for local news and traffic details, but they all seem
so similar - if they have to appeal to large numbers they're not likely to include
jazz. Local radio sounds equally bad in FM or digital - support the BBC Radio
jazz programmes

[Tenorman]

Bev,
You can take a feed from the back of most of the freeview boxes into your Hi-Fi amp. Sometimes requires a Scart to Phono lead. The quality ranges from good to OK

[peter rh]

Fears for new digital radio system :
DRM is a standard agreed by world broadcasters for a completely new short wave radio system
from AM/FM to DAB to DRM !
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/technology/3652202.stm

[peter rh]

Digital radio sound 'is worse than old FM'
By David Derbyshire Consumer Affairs Editor
(Filed: 16/01/2006)

Music lovers are calling on broadcasters to improve sound quality on digital radio after complaints that it is worse than traditional FM.

Critics say the BBC and commercial broadcasters have crammed so many new stations into their digital transmissions that sound quality has been badly compromised.

While the difference is barely noticeable on kitchen radios, owners of expensive hi-fi systems say digital sounds tinny and muffled.

About five million people listen to digital radio. The sets, usually costing between £70 and £130, are easier to tune, give access to dozens more stations and display channel and programme information

Many people also believe sound quality is better. But while digital transmissions have none of the hiss or crackle found on traditional radio, a vocal minority of hi-fi buffs argue that the sound quality is much worse than FM.

The quality of a signal is measured by its "bit rate" - the number of pieces of information transmitted each second. A typical CD, for instance, has a rate of 256,000 bits per second (kbps). The best quality digital radio station is Radio 3 which usually transmits at 192 kbps. But Radio 1, 2, 4 and 6 are broadcast at 128kbps, while Radio Five Live is broadcast at 80kbps.

To accommodate the part-time station BBC Five Live Sports Extra during sports events, Radio 4 drops to 80kbps and becomes mono, while Radio 3 reduces to 160kbps.

Steven Green, a music journalist who campaigns about digital radio quality says such rates are "noticeably" worse than FM. "On a small portable, it is not an issue," he said.

"But if you have very good FM reception on a hi-fi system, digital radio is worse." Radio 1 and 2 listeners suffered most. Music lacked definition and had a compressed dynamic range. "It's pretty nasty. I don't listen to digital radio."

In analogue radio each station has a dedicated frequency. But with digital, several stations are transmitted together on one frequency in a package called a multiplex.

There is a trade-off between the number of stations that can be broadcast on each multiplex, and the bit rate. When the BBC began its tests of digital radio in the 1990s, it broadcast all its major stations at 192kbps. But in order to introduce new channels - such as 1Xtra, Radio 6, Radio 7 and BBC Asian Network - it reduced the sound quality across the board.

Mr Green says the BBC gains quantity at the expense of quality and is petitioning the corporation to raise bit rates through his website www.digitalradiotech.co.uk.

A BBC spokesman said: "The BBC has a responsibility to serve all its diverse audiences and we believe we have found a balance between launching new services and broadcasting in good sound quality.

"We believe we are providing good sound quality on all our digital radio networks and recent research bears this out. The majority of people are very satisfied with the sound quality with around 95 per cent of digital radio listeners rating it 'excellent', 'good' or 'satisfied'."

Mandy Green, of the Digital Radio Development Bureau, said the industry no longer promoted digital on sound quality. Only a small fraction of listeners were unhappy. Clare Newsome, the editor of What Hi-Fi? Sound and Vision, said: "If you are replacing a 20-year-old kitchen radio with digital, the bit rate is irrelevant."
© Copyright of Telegraph Group Limited 2006.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/01/16/ndab16.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/01/16/ixnewstop.html

[aristotle]

My experience is also that dab is inferior to FM radio.Only benifit to dab(domestically), imo, is the extra stations which cannot be received with an analogue tuner. Sound on dab is not crystal clear; there is interference:like a gurgling noise in the background.
If however stations broadcast at higher bandwidth,and there were higher quality stations available it might be a different story;i get better reception online than i do on dab stations through the dab radio.

[Bev Stapleton]

My experience is also that dab is inferior to FM radio.Only benifit to dab(domestically), imo, is the extra stations which cannot be received with an analogue tuner. Sound on dab is not crystal clear; there is interference:like a gurgling noise in the background.
If however stations broadcast at higher bandwidth,and there were higher quality stations available it might be a different story;i get better reception online than i do on dab stations through the dab radio.

I bought a DAB at Xmas and get exactly this result - in fact the 'gurgling' is so bad that I use the FM setting at present. I've assumed it's because my area is not yet properly covered.

[Claude]

At a 80kbs transmission rate, the 'gurgling' effect is inevitable. That's a poor choice, given the technological potential of DAB. 128kbs should be used for acceptable sound quality.

[peter rh]

from http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/

"Sound Quality of 'Radio Systems' from Best to Worst
1.FM

2.broadband internet radio

3.digital satellite

4.Freeview

5.digital cable

7.DAB

8.AM

(Based on average, or typical levels of audio quality available on the above platforms/systems. Narrowband internet radio is excluded)

If you want a DAB portable radio, make sure you get one with FM!"
.........
Aerials don't get too many mentions, but have a big impact on the strength
of signal for AM/FM/Digital tuners - most DABs sold are portables which don't
have a proper aerial (or don't get connected to a full aerial)