If you were stranded on a deserted island with only ten jazz recordings...

[xricci]

...what would they be?

AAJ reader's picks from 1997-2000 at http://www.allaboutjazz.com/threads/desert.htm and http://www.allaboutjazz.com/editors.htm.

[jazzypaul]

1) Kurt Rosenwinkel -- The Next Step

2) Miles Davis -- Fillmore Oct. 7, 1970

3) Wayne Shorter -- Speak No Evil

4) Charles Mingus -- Music written for Monterrey, performed at UCLA

5) Sonny Stitt -- Live at the Left Bank

6) Eddie Harris/Les McCann -- Swiss Movement

7) Charlie Hunter -- Ready, Set, Shango

8) Stanley Turrentine -- Joyride

9) Medeski, Martin & Wood -- Shack-Man

10) George Benson -- Beyond the Blue Horizon

and snuck in somewhere, various Lenny Bruce and Richard Pryor albums, because if I'm stuck on a desert island, I'm gonna need something to keep spirits bright, of course...

[tiger40]

1. I've got my fingers crossed (L. Armstrong)

2. Fine and Mellow (Billie Holiday)

3. Walking by the river (version John Handy)

4. Septembersong (Norbert De Taeye)

5. I'm putting all my eggs in one basket (Ella & Louis)

6. Burgundy street blues (G. Lewis & Nonette Moore)

7. You are my lucky star (L Armstrong)

8. Nuages (Django)

9. Bluesette (Toots Tielemans)

10. My funny Valentine (Chet Baker, vocal version)

[Coypu]

1. Atheist - Unquestionable Presence
2. Cynic - Focus
3. Atheist - Elements
4. Allan Holdsworth - Road Games
5. Mahavishnu Orchestra - Inner Mounting Flame
6. Mahavishnu Orchestra - Birds of Fire
7. Fredrik Thordendal - Sol Niger Within
8. Spiral Architect - A Sceptics universe
9. Sean Malone - Cortland
10. Jaco Pastorius - self titled

[clifton]

Here's my ten: Louis Armstrong "Plays W.C. Handy", Duke Ellington "Far East Suite", Coleman Hawkins "Encounters Ben Webster", Charlie Parker "Jazz At Massey Hall", Dexter Gordon "Go", Sun Ra "Jazz In Silhouette", Miles Davis "Miles Smiles", Ornette Coleman "At The Golden Circle Vol.1" (RVG Edition), John Coltrane "A Love Supreme Deluxe Edition", Charlie Parker/Dizzy Gillespie "Bird And Diz At Carnegie Hall".

[Joel]

1. Pat Metheny -3 disc personal compilations of Speaking Of Now,Secret Story,Letter From Home,We Live Here,Still Life (Talking),Watercolors,Travels,Question and Answer,Bright Size Life,First Circle.Imaginary Day, Trio (both Live and studio).

2. Jeff Richman - Live at The Baked Potato Volumes 1 and 2

3.Jack DeJohnette,Pat Metheny,Herbie Hanc0ck,Dave Holland - Live In Concert (DVD)

4. Stanley Clarke and Friends - Live At The Greek

5. Wes Montgomery - Full House

6. Rippingtons - Live Across America

7. Spyro Gyra - Road Scholars

...thats all for now..or you can count 1 & 2 as 5 discs.

[Pharaohrock]

1. Wallace Roney- Quintet
2. James Hurt- Dark Grooves, Mystical Rhythms
3. John Coltrane- A Love Supreme
4. Miles Davis- Water Babies
5. Eric Dolphy- Far Cry
6. Booker Little- Out Front
7. Pharaoh Sanders- Black Unity
8. Rahsaan Roland Kirk- I Talk with The Spirits
9. Kenny Garrett- Black Hope
10. Carlos Garnett- Under Nubian Skies


BTW, the afrocentric theme of some of these discs is purely incidental to the musical reasons i have for favoring them. and another clarification; if you think i'm nuts for having recent records on this list, the realization i've come to is that i don't live in 1965, and Hurt, Roney, Garrett speak to me through a contemporary filter that i don't get listening to Trane, Bird, etc. And I think if I was on an island I'd want to remember where I came from even though...lol....being contemporary doesn't really matter at that point.

[clifton]

Pharoahrock: Your list was intriguing and creates considerable food for thought. I'm a huge fan of Kenny Garrett although I would have chosen "Pursuance" instead of "Black Hope". Other more contemporary albums I'd smuggle onto my island might be Dave Douglas, "Soul On Soul", Wayne Shorter, "Footprints Live", Sonny Sharrock, "Ask The Ages", and William Parker, "O'Neal's Porch". By the way, I'm middle aged, and although I love all forms of jazz, I heard Bird's records when I was in high school, saw Dizzy and Miles live soon after, and was hooked on jazz by the time I was 16. Bebop speaks to me in a way it might not speak to someone younger.

[Pharaohrock]

Clif, a number of the records on my list aren't deemed masterpieces by the press but they're nonetheless the records that I find myself going back to the most. I like Pursuance, but I think you hear Kenny Garrett's warm personality come out more on Black Hope, and the personality, not the chops and intensity, is the thing to most appreciate about K-Gar. People though "Tick Tock (Don't Stop)" from Simply Said was cheesy.....I'm just smitten by it though, thinking just how "Kenny" it is. Ditto the title track from Black Hope. Go and listen to these two tracks and I believe, you get to the real heart of Kenny Garrett. He's a sensitive worldly cat who has a lot of hope for humanity. "Black Hope" isn't a song just for black people, it speaks hope to everyone...

[jazzypaul]

Pharoah,

Tick Tock, as its heard on Simply Said, if only heard on its own, IS CHEESY. However, I had a chance to see him pull that one off live, and (a) the reaction from the jazz snobs in attendance, and (b) the way he brought that tune alive, make me go back and listen to the version on Simply Said just so I can relive the magic so to speak.

[Pharaohrock]

I can relate; hearing Kenny really flesh out that song at Blues Alley made the version on the record instantly better. I wouldn't have said it was "cheesy" though...that's probably a cultural thing coming out. I think heavy metal is cheesy, but you probably think Rap is by the same token. Different cultural orientations.

[jazzypaul]

Actually, I think Rap is where we'll see the next wave of truly brilliant musicians. Jay-Z and Eminem are doing polyrhythmic things that should blow people's minds, and Eminem's lines, at their best, are Bird like in their rhythmic nature. You'll never hear me scoff at rap. And, metal, when it's done well, is great. Problem is, it's so rarely done well. :cool:

[Coypu]

Originally posted by jazzypaul
Actually, I think Rap is where we'll see the next wave of truly brilliant musicians. Jay-Z and Eminem are doing polyrhythmic things that should blow people's minds, and Eminem's lines, at their best, are Bird like in their rhythmic nature. You'll never hear me scoff at rap. And, metal, when it's done well, is great. Problem is, it's so rarely done well. :cool:

Perhaps but Rap music usually take a beat and repeat it until doomsday before they change into a new one. I think that metal bands such as Meshuggah, Theory In Practice, Spiral Architect, Atheist and similar have a far more interesting approach as they have far more dynamic and varied music compared to rap.

[jazzypaul]

Again, as I said, metal is great, when done well. Meshuggah and the Dillinger Escape Plan are great examples of that. Remember to not be so quick to judge when talking about rap. Yes, much of it is one beat played into the ground, but groups like Tha Roots and artists like Guru are doing much to counter that. It all depends on who is doing what. Eminem is rapping over waltzes, Cypress Hill is rapping with rock groups, and some groups are even rapping with live jazz bands. Certainly all moves in the right direction. Not to mention, it all comes down to what you're looking for in the music. Atheist might be great to listen to on headphones or blaring on the 78 Trans Am. But you wouldn't play it at a party where you're looking to grind with the hottie in the half shirt next to you. Likewise, rarely do people listen to rap with the intensity that it takes to get a rewarding experience out of the jazz-metal movement. But between the Eminems and the Radioheads and the Meshuggahs of the world, I really think, if you look hard enough, that we are in a brand new golden period in the realm of pop music.

Let the tirades begin...

[Coypu]

I have heard various forms of rap music and I must admit that some of it actually has some form of musical value in it. But party music is one thing since there you have to take into consideration that taste of the majority of people. This leads to that you need to play something that is harmless, fairly simple and easygoing. This is the kind of music that the word shallow descibes pretty well and Eminem and the likes of him fit in there perfectly. For me who comes from a background of the more brutal forms of death metal and goregrind it is just impossible to dig into it. Same with almost every form of music that is harmless. I want kicks when I want music, maybe abit like a drug addict doesn't get much effect out of regular smoking, I need the extreme stuff. This is all ofcourse all based on taste, if you like Eminem then I have no problems with that, it is great music for you. But by saying the the new wave of truly brilliant musicians is comming from rap is just plain wrong. You can't seriously say that Eminem have the same skill as a band like Theory In Practice! I have yet to hear a rap group who actually master their instrument. The usually hire pros or make the music in a computer and creating polyrytmics in a computer is not hard at all. It is a different thing playing the material yourself. But if you can show me a rap music that has extremely gifted musicians that pushes music further then I will gladly take a listen.

[jazzypaul]

before you bash Eminem again, I encourage you to listen to his rapping STYLE. Not the beats behind him, and not even the words. But the ability to flow in and out of polyrhythms, (something that death metal and grindcore bands very rarely do) and knowing that he freestyles (off the top of his head, much like a jazz soloist) puts him far above the rest of his competition in the rap world (save for Jay-Z, who is doing roughly the same thing) and on a technical standpoint of rhythm, far afield of what most of the world of music is doing at this point. Yes, there are jazzers that can outdo him flow-wise, but no rock/metal band has come close. A lot of the bands that you have listed can play 16th and 32nd notes. I have yet to hear one pull off DOTTED 32nd notes, though, something that both Jay-Z and Em have done on record.

also: party music is not inherently shallow. blanket arguments, however, are.

[Coypu]

If you want a band that has crazy rhythmns of all possible kinds then look into Ron Jarzombeks solo project by the name of Spastic Ink. He is the kind of guy who use a measure of 1/64 if it suits him. I bet you alot that he has used dotted 32th notes on many occations. Don't even dare to compare Eminem with his work. But it is unfair comparing the vocals of eminem with death metal vocals since they are so different in their approaches, It is like saying that Eminem is inferior just because he can't pull off Lord Worms half minute long inhaled screaming.

But ok, let's be fair. I have 2 songs here that are by Spiral Architect and Spastic Ink. If you can find a eminem song that you think have more advanced rhythms then go ahead :

Insect (http://galaxen.net/~coypu/musik/MX/Spiral%20Architect%20-%20A%20Sceptics%20Universe%20-%2005%20-%20Insect.mp3)

Harm & Half-time baking shuffle (http://galaxen.net/~coypu/musik/MX/spastic%20ink%20-%20Harm%20And%20Half-Time%20Baking%20Shuffle.mp3)

And If you like party music then it is your choice, I just don't think that Britney Spears the peak of music.

[jazzypaul]

1) I never said Britney Spears was the epitomy of music either. But I know better than to say all party music is dreck. Much like I know not to compare Meshuggah with Warrant. I mean, I could, they're both metal, right?

2) I listened to the first tune you listed. Great use of polyMETRICS, that is playing at different tempi, and great use of shifting TIME SIGNATURES, but no polyRHYTHMS. That's where you get two time signatures going against each other at once. Most discernable in latin claves, Elvin Jones' drumwork, and yes, Eminem raps.

3) on a TECHNICAL level of being able to juggle rhythms and play them off of each other, my Eminem beat up your Spastic Ink.

4) let's stop this. it's off topic. You've got your death metal thing going, and I've got my jazz/rap/R&B/funk thing going. For once I'd like to see you mention Ben Webster in a sentence. (sorry, it's early, and I've been up all night)

[Coypu]

1) Fair enough.

2) Well, as far as hard shit to play goes I know which bands that have the hardest stuff. And Don't judge Rons music just yet either, He is byfar the most creative musician I have ever run across. And Eminem goes freeform and I'm sure that he is good at what he does but it's not even close to the work it takes to learn a song like The Mad Data race or Mosquito Brain surgery.

Listen to the soundclips from all his albums and see for yourself :
http://www.spasticink.com/cds.html

3) No, Eminem probably don't even know what he is doing. He is going on feel. If you ask him to rap over At the stop-n-go he wouldn't know what to do.

4) Threads going of topic is standard in most forums, it keeps things interesting and alive. If we stick to just naming our 10 most precious albums it will become a borefest in the longrun. This discussion is however over once you stop posting or we both agree on something.

[jazzypaul]

In response to one thing in particular...


" No, Eminem probably don't even know what he is doing. He is going on feel. If you ask him to rap over At the stop-n-go he wouldn't know what to do."

Yeah, and Wes Montgomery and Chet Baker went completely on feel too. Saying that they aren't hip either would get you flamed pretty hard in these parts. Feel is a large part of music. If you've got a natural sense for feel, you're well past halfway there. I wish someone would slam me like that. "hell, that drummer's got nothin! He's just playing on feel!" That to me, would mean, in a jazz context, that I swing heavily. I'll take that. Hell, I'll take that and Terry Bozzio can keep the ostinati for drumset.

I'm still waiting for you to use the name Ben Webster in a sentence.

[Coypu]

I understand that you think that Eminem is some form of musical genious and there is nothing wrong with going on feel. I just think that even the idea of Eminem being more master of rhythms than bands like Spastic Ink is rediculous. Rapping is something you can learn anyone to do pretty well without any harder work. You see lots of kids rapping and doing rhymes etc and there is a huge amount of rap artists that all do it pretty well. But how many guitarplayers have got the chops and creativity of Ron Jarzombek? A handfull at maximum. The music of technical metal is far more complex that rap any rap music and I can't see how you can deny that? Even jazz have only few bands that can match Spastic Ink in terms of complexity.

I'm not a fan of Ben Webster, I prefer the Bach goldberg variations anyday of Ben's improvised stuff. I take Composition over Improvisation any day of the year.

[jazzypaul]

"I'm not a fan of Ben Webster, I prefer the Bach goldberg variations anyday of Ben's improvised stuff. I take Composition over Improvisation any day of the year."

Not that I don't appreciate what you bring to the table, because I do appreciate your comments and POV, so to speak, but what in the world are you doing on a jazz site if you don't like improvisation? I could get into my big long diatribe about how bands that don't improvise should not be allowed to charge admission for their live shows, because you're essentially hearing what you already paid for on the albums, but I won't today. But remember this: maybe your boys can create stuff that complex, but it's easy to recreate what's written down. On the other hand, to take that complex music and make it something completely of the moment, THAT is true art.

As for Eminem, all I am saying is that I am hearing him doing things which no one else is doing, which are vital components to what we respect about the rhythmic structure of JAZZ; namely the 3 against 2 polyrhythm. Jazz, while not the only great music out there, is certainly the bulk of the greatest music made in the last 100 years. When I hear artists outside of the jazz realm appropriating jazz elements into what they do, I am impressed. What makes Eminem so impressive is his ability to take that 3 against 2 polyrhythm, and apply it to a four on the floor beat. Taking the elastic and concrete and making them work in tandem, while at times, layering subdivisions of that polyrhythm, I think is great, and in the context of pop music that all the kids are eating up, I think is STELLAR. Because they hear that, and then, if they're lucky enough to hear a Bird or a Diz, they'll hear some of those same concepts and be able to relate.

As for complexity, I'll take Grant Green over Steve Vai any day of the week. Grant swings, Steve masturbates. If chops is solely where it's at, I'll gladly be square.

[Coypu]

Here is my take on improvisation: I think that it can serve a purpose if you use it within an already well composed song. Lets take the example of Cynic's song Textures which basically have 4 layers of instruments well composed together, in the middle the is a improvised chapman stick solo that gives the song spontanity but since it is within a wellcomposed structure the song is still allowed to be multilayers and fairly complex. BUT if you decide to make most of the music improvised within only a few set parameters you will not be able to create multilayered music and not truly complex either. And if you can improvise an emotion you can write it down to so composition has an edge over improvisation since you are allowing yourself to only put out your best stuff and also to be able to create things that just aren't possible to improvise as a group. If you are having a bad day it won't affect the music as much as if you where improvising. And I don't consider the stuff Spastic does to be easy to play just because it is written down, it is alot of hard work to remember every single note on that whole album and the stuff isn't easy to play at all. If you improvise you are limited since the things you sit down and practice for hours can not be reacreated at the moment in the same way since it takes time do develope muscle memory.

I don't see the greatness is Eminem, To me he is just another bad artist trying to make some cash. I don't know what feelings you get out of listening to him but he bore me. I guess it all boils down to taste in this case.

And I am not a Vai fan at all, I truly dislike the shredders like Yngvie, Racer x etc. I do however enjoy cleverly written complex and technical music as much as I enjoy simple music like Burzum, Von and Absurd.

[clifton]

OK, enough about Mathers already. Simply put, hip hop will provide things jazz can use, but the areas where hip hop is creative, to my ears, involve the rhythmic audacity of the rapper and, to a lesser extent, the variety of the background, which is usually little more than a monolithic beat with bassline. Of course the rhymes themselves should show ingenuity and intelligence. I've heard few rappers who are as creative as Ice T or Chuck D, but Chuck's anti-Semitism pretty much destroyed Public Enemy for me. As for Ben Webster, he was so great. I might take "Soulville" on that desert island. And he could play a good song beautifully. It isn't either/or with jazz. It's all of it, Ben and Bird, fusion and funk, Ornette and Kenny Garrett.

[jazzypaul]

Amen clifton.

[Pharaohrock]

So apparently you guys have in common is that you wouldn't want to survive on jazz alone if you were on a deserted island. No?

[jazzypaul]

Not at all. But I would never be so foolish as to discount the other great non-jazz music that's out there.

[PiousBionicus]

I have to agree with Coypu - in my opinion, Eminem is rubbish. You want fantastic Hip-Hop, you should listen to Jurassic 5! I'm sorry if you are offended by that, but please don't start trying to explain to me why you like Eminem, it is just my opinion.

Also, I have to agree with Paul about improvising. It is not only more interesting to listen to, but also more interesting to play. Coypu, are you a musician?

And for my ten "jazz" recordings to take to a desert island...
Oscar Peterson - Live In Paris
Oscar Peterson - Night Train
Oscar Peterson - Exlusively For My Friends
Buena Vista Social Club
Jools Holland - Lift The Lid
Buddy Rich - Big Swing Face
Dexter Gordon - Go
Very Tall Band - Live At The Blue Note
Ray Charles - The Definitive...
(and one Reggae album for good luck) Gregory Isaacs - Once Ago

Now, you may notice a huge percentage of Oscar Peterson albums. That's because, as I am still only 16, I have not heard a huge amount of jazz and am unsure of where to start looking. Obviously (as you can see) I really like Oscar Peterson, and I prefer fast swing. I've got some George Arvanitis, Jacky Byard - and some more modern stuff from Barbara Dennerlein - but, bearing in mind I can't stand free-form (like Chris Potter etc.), could you recommend some other artists which I should look for, please.

[jazzypaul]

If Chris Potter is free form, you've really got some listening to do, my boy. Also, as a musician, don't knock em until you can play his rhythms at a piano. When you can, you can knock him all you want. I have put some of his more intricate stuff into my bag of drum fill tricks, and it almost always puts smiles on other musicians' faces. Anyway, as for your request. Fast swing, not out:

Bill Charlap: Written in the Stars. A couple of ballads, but mostly vanilla uptempo stuff.

Gene Harris: It's the Real Soul: a little spicier, but, yeah, you get the idea.

Ramsey Lewis: In Person 1960-67: Ramsey at the top of his game

Ahmad Jamal: Cross Country Tour: Early Jamal. Tasteful, swinging.

That should get you started. That comment about Chris Potter being free form blows my mind...

[Coypu]

Originally posted by PiousBionicus
I have to agree with Coypu - in my opinion, Eminem is rubbish. You want fantastic Hip-Hop, you should listen to Jurassic 5! I'm sorry if you are offended by that, but please don't start trying to explain to me why you like Eminem, it is just my opinion.

Also, I have to agree with Paul about improvising. It is not only more interesting to listen to, but also more interesting to play. Coypu, are you a musician?

I play bass and have done so for about 11 years now. All on hobby basis though so I'm not a pro. I personally prefer to play written music since I could never improvise the music I play anyhow due to both style and theory limitations. I think that composition just is a far stronger tool in creating music so I tend to stick with it.

And yeah, Jurrasic 5 are far better than Eminem IMO. Practically every hip-hop fan I have met have named J5 as being among the best.

[clifton]

Addressing PiousBionicus: If you dig up tempo swing, first generation beboppers will make your day. Thus: Bud Powell, "Jazz Giant", Charlie Parker, "Jazz At Massey Hall", Sonny Stitt, "Endgame Brilliance". Also try Charlie Parker, "Burnin' Bird", a compilation CD of his best up-tempo Savoy and Dial records. Best advice: Keep playing, keep listening. Listen to everybody. If you don't like something, try it again in a year. You're young, your tastes may change, but don't ever lose your love of this music. By the way, if you think Chris Potter is free form, you may have been listening to "Travelling Mercies", which is not typical of his work. Try "Unspoken" which I admit has some free playing, or try Chris as a sideman with Renee Rosnes.

[PiousBionicus]

Thanks people. I have heard Charlie Parker, although I didn't like him much, but Ahmad Jamal is great. And I was obviously very wrong about Chris Potter, ah well, lots to learn.
Thanks again.

[joesilver]

Originally posted by jazzypaul

As for Eminem, all I am saying is that I am hearing him doing things which no one else is doing, which are vital components to what we respect about the rhythmic structure of JAZZ; namely the 3 against 2 polyrhythm...

I know lots of people find merit in Eminem's, uh, stuff (I hesitate to call it music), and obviously it's selling in large quantities. Sorry, but what I've heard of it does nothing for me.

As a young music student I learned that music comprises three elements — rhythm, melody and harmony. Two of these elements, melody and harmony, are totally absent from the work of Eminem (as well as from most rap to which I've been exposed). Admittedly, I haven't checked him out in enough detail to hear the polyrhythmic complexity that you describe — mainly because I've been so turned off by the words, which I find truly disturbing, particularly his messages of bigotry and violence.

[valo]

In the intrests of staying on topic:

MMW-The Dropper (no rapping but here's is hip-hop merged seamlessly with out-jazz

Charles Mingus-"Live in Antibes"

Sun Ra-"Angels and Demons at Play/The Nubians of Plutonia"

Eastern Rebellion-Self-titled (with George Coleman!)

Les McCann/Eddie Harris-The Swiss Movement

Ellington/Mingus/Roach-Money Jungle

Ellington-Far East Suite

Dave Douglas-"The Infinite"

John Zorn-"the Circle Maker"

Louis Armstrong-"Hot fives/Hot sevens"

Ask me tomorrow and the list will probably be different...such is the problem for many with more music than money, I'm sure...

[bombastic]

How can you stand that crap? it's completely boring to listen to. as for a ten c.d. list, i can' t come up with ten without excluding some really great ones. there's so much hostility in that eminem rap crap, what is that shit about- chill out mr. mean boy!poor baby, your mommy treated you badly, you and 100,000 other motherfuckers who don't bitch and moan about it. i don't want to listen to that shit! please don't compare him to bird.

[Nils]

since the thread is about lists, here's a list, if the ship left in five minutes. you gotta figure these things should age well, unless you decide to go analog in your listening experience...

john coltrane-sun ship (naturally)
squarepusher-go plastic
matthew shipp-circular temple
de la soul-3 feet high and rising
bloodcount-unwound
masada-bar kokhba
amon tobin-out from out there
fela kuti-coffin for head of state
david s. ware-surrendered
william parker-testimony

[LeMo]

I forget to answer to this one. Making list is the passion of two kind of afficionados: the jazz fan and the movies lover (what's the greatest film of all? What the best Italian film of the sixties? What the best Nouvelle Vague one? Antonioni or Fellini? And so on).

So, here comes my ten records for the mythic desert island (no hierarchie).

- John Coltrane: The Classic Quartet - The Complete Impulse! Studio Recordings (Impulse, 8 CD
- Miles Davies Quintet: 1965-68 (Columbia, 6CD)
- Anthony Braxton: Willisau (Quartet) 1991 (hatART, 4 CD)
- Peter Brötzmann: The Chicago Octet/Tentet (Okkadisk, 3 CD)
- Albert Ayler: Live In Greenwich Village, The Complete Impulse
Recordings (Impulse!, 2 CD)
- Sonny Rollins: The Alternative Rollins (RCA, 2 LP)
- Thelonious Monk: Monk Alone: The Complete Columbia Solo
Studio Recordings 1962-1968 (Columbia, 2 CD)
- Jimmy Giuffre 3: 1961 (ECM, 2 CD)
- John Coltrane: Interstellar Space (Impulse!)
- John Coltrane: First Meditations (Impulse!)

[Tanager]

As tough as it is, here's a stab off of the top of my head:

John Coltrane - Live at the Village Vanguard Master Takes
Eric Dolphy - Far Cry
Bill Evans - Waltz for Debby
Eric Reed - Happiness
John Scofield - Still Warm
Michel Petrucciani - Plays Petrucciani
Tal Farlow - Tal
Miles Davis - Porgy and Bess
Lee Morgan - Search for the New Land
Dizzy Gillespie - The Complete RCA/Victor Recordings

Given that these are the *only* ten disks I'd have, I tried to mix in some stuff that, while certainly not classic by any stretch, would nonethess keep things from getting monotonous and put a smile on my face (a little mid-80s ScoFunk is usually good for that).

I also tried to pull some stuff from a variety of periods for the same reason.

[walkin]

Here`s my top 10(though on another day I could pick 10 different ones;) )

-Miles Davis-Kind Of Blue
-John Coltrane-A Love Supreme
-Charles Mingus-Right Now:Live At The Jazz Workshop
-Bill Evans-Sunday At The Village Vanguard
-Sonny Rollins-The Bridge
-Johnny Griffin-A Blowin Session-vol 1
-Thelonious Monk-Monk`s Dream
-Stan Getz-Sweet Rain
-Horace Silver-Song For My Father
-Ornette Coleman-Free Jazz

[Kerry]

here's my list...

George Colligan: Como La Vida Puede Ser
Kurt Rosenwinkel: The Next Step
Hermeto Pascoal: Festa Dos Deuses
John Coltrane: A Love Supreme
Keith Jarrett: Standards Vol. 2
Caetano Veloso/Gal Costa: Domingo
Chick Corea: Now He Sings, Now He Sobs
Wayne Shorter: Juju
Brad Mehldau: Live At The Village Vanguard (any volume :) )
Milton Nascimento: Native Dancer

[LeMo]

Better to take John Coltrane's Live at the Village Vanguard Again (Impulse!) as First Meditations (one of my favorite Coltrane of all time) is including in the 8 Cd Box. My mistake!

[BruceH]

Ellington--Piano Reflections
Tina Brooks---True Blue
Sonny Clark---Cool Struttin'
Parker----Dial masters (?)
Mingus---Ah Um
Cyrus Chestnut---anything
Golson---Another Side
Sun Ra---Monorails & Satellites
Silver---Fingerpoppin (?)
Armstrong---Hot Five and Seven

[Noj]

1. Herbie Hancock Thrust
2. Freddie Hubbard Red Clay
3. Ramsey Lewis Upendo Ni Pamoja
4. Brother Jack McDuff Moon Rappin'
5. Paul Jackson Black Octopus
6. John Coltrane Africa Brass
7. Rahsaan Roland Kirk The Case Of The 3-Sided Dream In Audio Color
8. The Heath Brothers Marchin' On
9. Stanley Turrentine Sugar
10. Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers Moanin'

As far as jazz-related hip-hop goes, check out Aceyalone, The Grouch, Mos Def, The Roots, Common, Talib Kweli, Madlib...

[victor]

10....erroll garner....concert by the sea
9......dexter gordon....go
8......trane......giant steps
7......manhattan transfer.....best of
6......sarah vaughn.....live at mr.kellys
5......ray brown.....some of my best friends are piano players
4......miles......cookin at the plugged nickel
3......mingus.....mingus mingus mingus mingus
2......john hendricks.......boppin at the blue note
1......miles.....kind of blue

course this is in no particular order :)

[sideshowbob]

Oooh good, a list, I like lists ...

Off the top of my head, something like:

- Coltrane / Ali "Interstellar Space"
- Mingus "Black Saint & the Sinner Lady"
- Ellington "...and his mother called him Bill"
- Armstrong "Complete Hot 5s and 7s"
- Cecil Taylor "One Too Many Salty Swift and Not Goodbye"
- Monk "Monk Alone"
- Ornette "Change of the Century"
- Evan Parker "50th Birthday Concert"
- Albert Ayler "Live in Greenwich Village"
- Sun Ra "The Magic City"

Damn. 10 already.

-- Ian

[LeMo]

Very nice list, Sideshowbob.
I could make it mine!

[jomina]

Originally posted by jazzypaul
Actually, I think Rap is where we'll see the next wave of truly brilliant musicians. Jay-Z and Eminem are doing polyrhythmic things that should blow people's minds, and Eminem's lines, at their best, are Bird like in their rhythmic nature. You'll never hear me scoff at rap. And, metal, when it's done well, is great. Problem is, it's so rarely done well. :cool:
Brazil is also giving up some interesting polyrythmic / rap hybrids. Amongst many others, Nascao Zumbi, Monobloco (aka Pedro Luis) and Chico Science are making exciting music.

[kh1958]

John Coltrane--Crescent
Ornette Colemen--The Shape of Jazz to Come
Duke Ellington--The Far East Suite
Duke Ellington--And His Mother Called Him Bill
Charles Mingus--Changes One/Two
The Great Concert of Charles Mingus
Miles Davis--Sketches of Spain
Charlie Parker--Savoy Master Takes
Charlie Parker--Dial Masters
Roland Kirk--Rip, Rig and Panic

[Fran]

Woody Herman --Blowin' Up A Storm
Oscar Peterson --Night Train
Bird -- Dial Recordings
Duke --Webster Blanton Orch
Stan Kenton --The Early Recordings
Hank Mancini -- Combo
Ray McKinley -- (Hangover Square, etc)
Miles --Kinda Blue
Art Tatum -- anything
Basie -- anything from the Payne, Foster, Newman era

[mikeweil]

1. Herbie Hancock: Complete Warner Bros. Recordings (Mwandishi/Crossings/Fat Albert Rotunda)
2. Duke Ellington: New Orleans Suite
3. Lucky Thompson: Tricotism
4. Ahmad Jamal: Okeh Sessions 1954 w. Ray Crwaford
5. Chris Connor: A Jazz date with C.C.
6. John Lewis: (hard to choose one)
7. Geoff Keezer: Other Spheres
8. Ahmad Jamal: Cross Country Tour
9. John Coltrane: Transition
10. Jimmy Rowles Trio with Red Mitchell & Donald Bailey

and 10 classical CDs as well ....

interesting choices all the way!:cool:

[Saundra Hummer]

Originally posted by jazzypaul
1) I never said Britney Spears was the epitomy of music either. But I know better than to say all party music is dreck. Much like I know not to compare Meshuggah with Warrant. I mean, I could, they're both metal, right?

2) I listened to the first tune you listed. Great use of polyMETRICS, that is playing at different tempi, and great use of shifting TIME SIGNATURES, but no polyRHYTHMS. That's where you get two time signatures going against each other at once. Most discernable in latin claves, Elvin Jones' drumwork, and yes, Eminem raps.

3) on a TECHNICAL level of being able to juggle rhythms and play them off of each other, my Eminem beat up your Spastic Ink.

4) let's stop this. it's off topic. You've got your death metal thing going, and I've got my jazz/rap/R&B/funk thing going. For once I'd like to see you mention Ben Webster in a sentence. (sorry, it's early, and I've been up all night)

Whew! If I had to listen to some of this music for a long time, I would hope there is no water there!

[Noj]

JAZZ

John Coltrane AFRICA BRASS
Miles Davis IN A SILENT WAY
Horace Silver SONG FOR MY FATHER
Wes Montgomery TEQUILA
Stanley Turrentine SALT SONG
Oliver Nelson BLUES & ABSTRACT TRUTH
Billy Cobham SPECTRUM
Grover Washington, Jr. FEELS SO GOOD
Wayne Shorter JUJU
Freddie Hubbard SKYDIVE

This would kill me, I'm second-guessing every one even though they are favorites, and I'm thinking about everything I haven't heard yet...

HIP HOP

De La Soul THREE FEET HIGH & RISING
A Tribe Called Quest THE LOW END THEORY
Mos Def BLACK ON BOTH SIDES
The Pharcyde BIZARRE RIDE TO THE PHARCYDE
Nas ILLMATIC
Redman WHUT?! THEE ALBUM
Aceyalone BOOK OF HUMAN LANGUAGE
The Roots DO YOU WANT MORE?!!
The Grouch MAKING PERFECT SENSE
Outkast SOUTHERNPLAYALISTICCADILLACFUNKYMUSIC

No Eminem in my top 100...

I shelve Eminem with Chino XL--they're battle rhymers, not top-tier hip-hoppers. Eminem is good for a few laughs, but his hooks are just plain aggravating and his subject matter is repetitive as hell. He is at his best freestyling, dissing someone off the top of his head (watch the 8-Mile outtakes on the DVD, where he RUINS some cats who try to step up).

[ATR]

I'm trying to remember the ten favorites I listed on the Steve Hoffman site. Remember, these are the ones I'd want to be stranded with and not critically 'the best'.
1. Roscoe Mitchell The Art Ensemble 5 CD
2. James Blood Ulmer Free Lancing LP
3. Miles Davis Get Up With It 2 CD
4. Albert Ayler Bells/Prophecy CD
5. Cecil Taylor Akisakila 2LP
6. Irakere Irakere LP
7. Charlie Parker Complete Verve Recordings 10 CD
8. Ornette Coleman Beauty is a Rare Thing 5 CD
9. John Coltrane The Classic Quartet 8 CD
10. Thelonious Monk Complete Riverside 12 CD

OK so I cheated and used a lot of my picks for compilation boxes, but that's the CD era for you. Besides, if I could only have ten choices it would be sad indeed. Nonetheless, I'll give alternate single titles for the Mitchell, Parker, Coleman, Coltrane, and Monk.

Lester Bowie Numbers 1 and 2
Charlie Parker Savoy Master Takes (not really an album either, but it's one CD)
Ornette Coleman Science Fiction (hah, still 2 CD's and over two albums worth of great stuff
John Coltrane Blue Train
Thelonious Monk Complete Live at the It Club (again, two CD's and more than the original LP release, but it's a single title)
Finally, I think the combined Ayler Bells/Prophecy may no longer be available and you can only buy Prophecy on its own. Too bad about that.

[lazy bird]

That's impossible..

If you must listen to the same 10 records over and over, you get bored by even the best music.

[mmilovan]

If you were stranded on a deserted island with only ten jazz recordings...

...I will left the d.i. to get some more.:cool:

[ATR]

Originally posted by lazy bird
That's impossible..

If you must listen to the same 10 records over and over, you get bored by even the best music.

I don't think you're supposed to take the question literally. Marooned on a desert island you're not likely to have a stereo or any records. And I never get bored listening to the best records over and over, whether I have 10 or 10 thousand.

[kenny weir]

Can I cheat?:D

Jelly Roll - Complete RCA
Duke - Complete RCA
Armstrong - Hot 5s and 7s
Bird - Complete Dial/Savoy
Monk - Riverside box
Rollins - Complete Prestige
Basie - Complete Decca
Holiday - Complete Columbia
Various - The Blue Note Years
Trane - Village Vanguard Complete

[mrogi]

In no particular order:

in a silent way...miles davis
kind of blue.......miles davis
first light..........freddie hubbard
time out..........dave brubeck
impulse years....john coltrane
barefoot ballet...john klemmer
layers.........,,...les mccann
storyville.....,,,,.charlie parker
ella & louis...,,...fitzgerald and armstrong
london house.....oscar petersen

[NewJazz4Mike]

As long as we have some source of energy to keep playing these recordings... I'd just bring my ipod, which currently has just over 8400 tracks in it. Why limit ourselves to 10 recordings? That's so passe.

[Alexander]

JAZZ

John Coltrane AFRICA BRASS
Miles Davis IN A SILENT WAY
Horace Silver SONG FOR MY FATHER
Wes Montgomery TEQUILA
Stanley Turrentine SALT SONG
Oliver Nelson BLUES & ABSTRACT TRUTH
Billy Cobham SPECTRUM
Grover Washington, Jr. FEELS SO GOOD
Wayne Shorter JUJU
Freddie Hubbard SKYDIVE

This would kill me, I'm second-guessing every one even though they are favorites, and I'm thinking about everything I haven't heard yet...

HIP HOP

De La Soul THREE FEET HIGH & RISING
A Tribe Called Quest THE LOW END THEORY
Mos Def BLACK ON BOTH SIDES
The Pharcyde BIZARRE RIDE TO THE PHARCYDE
Nas ILLMATIC
Redman WHUT?! THEE ALBUM
Aceyalone BOOK OF HUMAN LANGUAGE
The Roots DO YOU WANT MORE?!!
The Grouch MAKING PERFECT SENSE
Outkast SOUTHERNPLAYALISTICCADILLACFUNKYMUSIC

No Eminem in my top 100...

I shelve Eminem with Chino XL--they're battle rhymers, not top-tier hip-hoppers. Eminem is good for a few laughs, but his hooks are just plain aggravating and his subject matter is repetitive as hell. He is at his best freestyling, dissing someone off the top of his head (watch the 8-Mile outtakes on the DVD, where he RUINS some cats who try to step up).

First of all, your Hip Hop list is awesome! Many of my favorite groups on that list (even though I think I'd go with "Phrenology" over "Do You Want More?!!", and "Aquemeni" over "Southernplayalistic..."). Secondly, I would say that I agree with you in general terms about Eminem. There's a reason he's only represented in my collection by his greatest hits CD and a couple of singles that didn't make that disc ("White America" is one of my favorites, and it was overlooked for some reason). But I think he's a bit better than he's portayed. I think that many of his rhymes are clever and that on more than a few occasions he's made some interesting and valid points ("Let's do the math: If I was black, I would have sold half..." from the aforementioned "White America"). I think he's aware of his strengths and his limitations (for all of the boasting in rap, most rappers are very humble off the mic) and he tends to play to his strengths. While his individual albums may be lite, he's put out several excellent singles. He wouldn't go on the desert island, but he's certainly earned a place on my iPod.

[3Q15]

I agree with the points about Eminem--a great rapper who doesn't make particularly interesting music. I think he just hasn't found a musical context (read: a producer) really suited for his style.

My hip hop desert island list:

Public Enemy - Fear of a Black Planet
Beastie Boys - Paul's Boutique
De La Soul - De La Soul Is Dead
A Tribe Called Quest - The Low End Theory
Raekwon - Only Built 4 Cuban Linx
Ghostface Killah - Supreme Clientele
Outkast - Aquemini
Madvillain - Madvillainy
Jay Z - The Blueprint
The Roots - Game Theory

And the jazz would be (if I had to choose at this moment):

Miles Davis - Kind of Blue
John Coltrane - A Love Supreme
Eric Dolphy - Out To Lunch
Charles Mingus - Black Saint and the Sinner Lady
Miles Davis - Miles Smiles
Chick Corea - Now He Sings Now He Sobs
Andrew Hill - Passing Ships
Miles Davis - Bitches Brew
Herbie Hancock - Headhunters
David Holland - Conference of the Birds

So no reggae lists, no hard rock lists, no funk lists, no dancehall lists? :)

[captain adventure]

Difficult to narrow down to ten, but here goes:

Abdullah Ibrahim: African Piano
Abdullah Ibrahim: Autobiography
Stan Tracey: The Return Of Captain Adventure
Stan Tracey: Live At The QEH
Hampton Hawes: All Night Session Vol.1
Sonny Criss: I'll Catch The Sun
Blue Mitchell: Bring It Home To Me
Dave Brubeck: Blues Roots
Thelonious Monk: Underground
Jimmy Smith: Back At The Chicken Shack

The Monk was the most difficult to choose as it could have been any number of albums (ie: Brilliant Corners; Live In Stockholm 1961; Monk; etc etc).

[Jazznik]

1. Bill Evans Trio: Sunday At the Village Vanguard- I prefer this over the entire collection; I recall the tune order all too well, and I like it that way.

2. Curtis Counce Group: You Get More Bounce With Curtis Counce- The most comforting Jazz I own and the interplay is sooo good.

3. Miles Davis All-Stars- Walkin' (The album which provided that "Ah ha!" moment; my first Jazz album, and I still love it. 'Blues & Boogie', baby!)

4. Chet Baker: Let’s Get Lost: The Best of Chet Baker Sings- Reminds me of so much and being a Jazz youngster out on my own for the first time.

5. Thelonious Monk: Misterioso- So vivid and wonderful is this recording that I’m at the Five Spot and witnessing genius, Monk style!

6. Lennie Niehaus: Vol. 4: The Quintets and Strings. ‘Don’t be afraid of the strings’, I said to myself all those years ago. And the strings were good. Niehaus has such a sweet tone.

7. Charles Mingus: The Clown. Lots of detractors on this album, but I, for one, like the Shepherd monologue. The bonus cuts only add to this album’s greatness.

8. George Russell: Ezz-Thetics. When I bought this years ago, I played the opening of the title cut over the phone for a friend and he screamed in ecstasy: “It’s so damned Avant-Garde!!!” Still is, and it’s still brilliant.

9. Ornette Coleman: The Shape of Jazz to Come. These guys are listening to each other! Who yells that ‘woo!’ during “Lonely Woman”? Billy Higgins?

10. Who knows? The entire list could change tomorrow.

[GA Russell]

I'll fudge a little bit and mention two each of three types:

Two personal favorites:
Richard "Groove" Holmes - Soul Message
Mike Nock - In, Out & Around

Two best sellers:
Henry Mancini - Music from Peter Gunn
Miles Davis - The Birth of the Cool

Two box sets:
Paul Desmond Mosaic
Bill Evans - Village Vanguard, 1961