Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: What are considered the first bebop recordings?

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    391

    What are considered the first bebop recordings?

    Is there any album that scholars consider to be the first bebop record? Is there a session that qualifies? Or is there any single cut of an album that qualifies?

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    1,293
    I'm pretty sure it was some songs by Dizzy and Bird... maybe "Woody N' You," "Koko," or some say even Coleman Hawkin's "Body & Soul" qualifies, which was cut in 1939.

    The advent of bebop happened before the age of studio "albums." Now I'm not sure what is considered to be the first official studio jazz album.
    "When I die I want them to play The Black and Crazy Blues, I want to be cremated, put in a bag of pot and I want beautiful people to smoke me and hope they get something out of it." - Roland Kirk

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Southern Germany
    Posts
    351
    The Dizzy Gillespie 1945 sessions with and without Bird should be just about the first "official" bebop recordings.

    Otherwise, can't recall the exact titles but a number of "first" bebop recordings have been evoked here and there by those who wanted to go for very early tracks that show a pronounced shade of "things to come".

    However, no matter what scholars say I wouldn't bet too much on any of their "first bebop recording" claims.
    After all, the birth of bebop fell straight into the 1942-44 AFM recording ban period. So do you know what live recordings, airshots, acetates from those years may be just waiting to be discovered somewhere? Just wait for any of those elusive 1943 Earl Hines big band airshots (?) with Bird and Diz in the lineup to show up somewhere on tape or acetate and they will be sure to be labeled the "first" bebop recordings.

    Finally, I'd sure like to see a book like this

    http://www.amazon.com/What-First-Roc.../dp/0571129390

    being written on the first BEBOP recording. This one is fun and instructive to read...

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    49
    The first bebop recordings are generally considered to be the six sides Coleman Hawkins recorded for Apollo records in February of 1944. The titles are Woody'n You, Bu-dee-daht, and Yesterdays recorded February 16/44, and Disorder at the Border, Feeling Zero and Rainbow Mist recorded February 22/44. The personnel was Dizzy Gillespie, Vic Coulsen and Ed Vanderveer, trumpets; Leo Parker and Leonard Lowry, alto saxophones; Coleman Hawkins, Don Byas and Ray Abrams, tenors; Budd Johnson, baritone; Clyde Hart, piano; Oscar Pettiford, bass, and Max Roach, drums.

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    13,468
    Cootie Williams recorded a bebop session with Bud Powell earlier, in January, 1944.

  6. #6
    Listener theoldsearock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    137
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Beat Steve View Post
    However, no matter what scholars say I wouldn't bet too much on any of their "first bebop recording" claims. After all, the birth of bebop fell straight into the 1942-44 AFM recording ban period. So do you know what live recordings, airshots, acetates from those years may be just waiting to be discovered somewhere?
    Very true about the "ban" and the war shortages of shellac and whatnot that also put a dent into the recording industry.

    Then, the depression... from the excesses of the 20's to the dreariness of the 30's.. much of the "hot music" didn't sell and so many talented artists weren't able to record/weren't in demand any more.

    And an interesting concept to define.

    An actual "song" or "album"... man, that's hard to think about. I'm not a scholar though I am very well versed in the HISTORY of the music.

    The first known recordings of Charlie Parker (that I'm aware of) are from mid-1940; a private recording (which has been issued) of Honeysuckle Rose and Body & Soul exist as well as (issued) private recordings made of Jay McShann and Orchestra (including Charlie Parker) from August and broadcasts from November & December of 1940.

    Parker was definitely on another "plane".. even in 1940.

    So, do big bands with bebop riffs/etc. count as the first bebop recordings - or, does it have to be a small group?

    INTERESTING DISCUSSION.

    I'd argue that Bechet, Armstrong, Beiderbecke and Pee Wee Russell were the original "beboppers" and everyone else built upon that foundation.

    If there's no recorded evidence then there's no valid point of reference (Bolden, Keppard, Emmett Hardy, Peck Kelley, etc.). Peck Kelley and Emmett Hardy were widely, widely thought of as ahead of their time by their peers.

    That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it!
    Last edited by theoldsearock; August 24th, 2011 at 09:18 PM. Reason: senility

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Florida - New York
    Posts
    4,857
    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Ptah View Post
    Cootie Williams recorded a bebop session with Bud Powell earlier, in January, 1944.
    Hot Ptah-

    There was a HIT records session by Cootie in Jan of 44 is that the one you reference?

    What were the Bop sides recorded?
    Keep the Blue Flame Burning

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  




Support the All About Jazz website and forum. Make a donation today!



Download the Jazz Near You iOS app

Download the Jazz Near You iOS app - Free!

Never miss another jazz concert again! Jazz Near You is a simple yet powerful way for fans to discover who is playing where and when. Access local jazz events by date, by distance, by venue, by musician or by festival; map to venues, set reminders, and get detailed information about musicians. Jazz Near You is your complete guide to jazz music near you! Download it now.



Visit All About Jazz at Twitter   Twitter Visit All About Jazz at Facebook   Facebook Use the All About Jazz content widgets on your website or blog   Widgets Subscribe to the All About Jazz RSS feeds   Feeds


All About Jazz | Jazz Near You | Jazz Musician Directory | Jazz News | Jazz Photo Gallery