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Thread: Billie's Bounce?

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    Billie's Bounce?

    I searched, and couldn't find anything for this charlie parker tune. I was woundering if I should play through the changes, or go about it like a blues. I'm normally a blues player, and I'm trying to get into more of a jazz sense, but I would need a bit of a breakdown for a song like this. The version I'm looking off has a key signature in C major, and the changes go like this:

    F9(4) Bb7(4) F9(4) C-7(2) F9(2) Bb7(4) Bdim(4) F9(4) A-7(2) D7b9(2) G-7(4) C9(4) A-7(2) D7b9(2) G-7(2) C9(2)

    I know how to voice each chord, and how to play the head, I can solo in a jazzy sense in a blues scale, subing in tritones at 7th chords, but the rest is still an open sponge to me, can anyone quickly break this down into chunks that I can work at?

  2. #2
    Piano/Compose/Arrange engelbach's Avatar
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    It's a straight bebop blues. Often, the head is played in unison, so no xtraordinary chords are implied.

    These are what I use.

    Billie's Bounce

    || F7 - (F7/A) - | (Bb7) - (B°) - | F7 - - - | - - - - |

    | Bb7 - - - | - - - - | F7 - Gm7 - | Am7 - D7 - |

    | Gm7 - - - | C7 - - - | F7 - (D7) - | (Gm7) - (C7) - ||

    Chords in ( ) are optional or turnarounds.
    Jerry Engelbach, piano/arrange/compose
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    what kind of modes would I use in the song, and where would I change with the chords? I kinda want to know how to tell what mode to play over what kind of chord (like I know to play a Dorian over a minor 7), but thats as far as I've gone, as I have no more money to pay my jazz teacher.

  4. #4
    Composer/Drummer Jay Norem's Avatar
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    First off, Billie's Bounce is in F, not C. It's a blues, but it's a "jazz blues," bebop blues as Jerry said. Plain old Eric Claptonish blues licks in F won't cut it.

    Listen to the way Charlie Parker originally recorded it (with Dizzy Gillespie on piano and Miles Davis on trumpet) in 1945. Learn the head, learn it by ear if you can, then try transcribing the solos, see how they worked the turn-arounds. That's the key to nailing this kind of tune.

  5. #5
    Piano/Compose/Arrange engelbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mannishboy View Post
    what kind of modes would I use in the song, and where would I change with the chords? I kinda want to know how to tell what mode to play over what kind of chord (like I know to play a Dorian over a minor 7), but thats as far as I've gone, as I have no more money to pay my jazz teacher.
    Jay is right, of course.

    But forget chord/scale theory and all that modes crap. This is a blues. Learn the two blues scales, major and minor, and use those.

    Major Blues Scale
    F G Ab A C D

    Minor Blues Scale
    F Ab Bb B C Eb

    The minor blues scale can be used any time, over F7, Bb7, etc. The major blues scale sounds best over F7.

    The sax player in my band, Dan Greenblatt, has written an excellent book introducing the use of these scales: The Blues Scales.


    Remember, this is a bebop blues, so it contains extra chords to make the transitions more hip. Your basic jazz blues is just:

    F7 x 4

    Bb7 x 2

    F7 x 2

    Gm7 x 1

    C7 x 1

    F7 x 2

    Cheers,
    Jer
    Jerry Engelbach, piano/arrange/compose
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  6. #6
    Composer/Drummer Jay Norem's Avatar
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    While I agree with Jerry I think it's also important to point out that the major seventh should not be ignored. That note, E natural, is in the head after all, and it's an important part of the bebop tonal concept or whatever you want to call it, the major seventh.

    That's what seems so strange at first, when you're getting your head around playing jazz after having played more popular music, that major seventh. It just doesn't ever show up in what is normally called blues or even rock music, it's always a flatted seventh, always.

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    Quote Originally Posted by engelbach View Post
    Jay is right, of course.

    But forget chord/scale theory and all that modes crap. This is a blues. Learn the two blues scales, major and minor, and use those.

    Major Blues Scale
    F G Ab A C D

    Minor Blues Scale
    F Ab Bb B C Eb

    The minor blues scale can be used any time, over F7, Bb7, etc. The major blues scale sounds best over F7.

    The sax player in my band, Dan Greenblatt, has written an excellent book introducing the use of these scales: The Blues Scales.


    Remember, this is a bebop blues, so it contains extra chords to make the transitions more hip. Your basic jazz blues is just:

    F7 x 4

    Bb7 x 2

    F7 x 2

    Gm7 x 1

    C7 x 1

    F7 x 2

    Cheers,
    Jer
    Well, i know how to play a better jazzy way of going about the blues scale, i use alot of BB King shapes, but put the tritone subs of the chord into the shape while I play. How many variations of the traditional 12 bar blues progression are there?

  8. #8
    Piano/Compose/Arrange engelbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mannishboy View Post
    Well, i know how to play a better jazzy way of going about the blues scale, i use alot of BB King shapes, but put the tritone subs of the chord into the shape while I play. How many variations of the traditional 12 bar blues progression are there?
    Myriad. There are so many ways to change and add chords to a blues to make it more interesting, further out, etc.
    Jerry Engelbach, piano/arrange/compose
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    Registered User jazzman1945's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by engelbach View Post

    The sax player in my band, Dan Greenblatt, has written an excellent book introducing the use of these scales: The Blues Scales.

    Somewhat aloof from OP.
    Your sax player complains of limitation of blues scales.
    But what if you build for example from the minor blues scales the whole system and use it within source scale? This may allow the use of more rich harmony.
    http://www.jazzideas.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by engelbach View Post
    Myriad. There are so many ways to change and add chords to a blues to make it more interesting, further out, etc.
    what are some common ways to sub in chords in a traditional 12 bar?

  11. #11
    Compose /Arranger / Jazz Prod. Phil Kelly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mannishboy View Post
    what are some common ways to sub in chords in a traditional 12 bar?
    during the first 4 bars, run the cycle of 5ths -two beats each -starting on the 7th chord a half step UP from the tonic: ( You'll land on the 4 chord in the 5th bar ...just like a basic blues )

    in F:

    F#7 B7 | E7 A7 | D7 G7 | C7 F7 | Bb7


    another common substitution series:

    in F:

    ||: F7 | emi75b A7 | dmi dbmi11 | cmi7 F9# |

    Bb7 | bbmi7 Eb9# |Ab7 | abmi7 Db 9# |

    Gb7 | gmi75b C9# | F ( D9# | Gmi7 C9# ) :||
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    when you use the cycle of 5ths, do you go counter clockwise, clockwise, or across?

  13. #13
    Compose /Arranger / Jazz Prod. Phil Kelly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mannishboy View Post
    when you use the cycle of 5ths, do you go counter clockwise, clockwise, or across?

    uhh ...A fifth is a fifth in either direction ( the reverse of which is fourths )
    its like a traffic circle ( or roundabout ) goes counterclockwise in the USA
    and Canada, and the reverse ( from the L lane ) in GB.
    Swing ..or I'll kill you ( Bill Potts )
    RIP

  14. #14
    Registered User Homer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Norem View Post
    First off, Billie's Bounce is in F, not C.
    I don't understand this statement. Why is C not correct?

  15. #15
    Guitarist/Oudist/Composer jazz oud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homer View Post
    I don't understand this statement. Why is C not correct?
    The standard key is F, and the changes that the OP wrote out are in F, but he said the key signature was C.
    You could play it in C, but not with those changes. Most people play it in F.

    It's important to realize that no key signature either means: the piece is in C, or there's just no key signature!

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