Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20

Thread: Charles Mingus 1964 Sextet

  1. #1
    Registered User Extrapolation's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    92

    Charles Mingus 1964 Sextet

    One of my favorite bands of all-time, the 1964 sextet with Dannie Richmond, Eric Dolphy, Jaki Byard, Clifford Jordan, and Johnny Coles was to many the band that best embodied Mingus' music.

    I am making this thread mainly for general discussion but also for everyone to share information on recordings from their European tour. Their two U.S. shows are readily available (Cornell 1964 and Town Hall Concert), as are some of the European shows, but some shows seem to have apparently been released but are impossible to find. Here's a couple pages that I am using to try and track them down:

    http://mingus.onttonen.info/1964.html
    http://mingus.onttonen.info/tour1964.txt

    I have shows at Bremen, Amsterdam, Paris (Revenge and Great Concert...), and somewhere in Germany (released as Mingus In Europe in two volumes), as well as a Stuttgart show though the CD only contains ATFW YOU, Sophisticated Lady, and Fables Of Faubus. Others are very difficult to find, apparently a complete Stuttgart show exists, as well as complete Stockholm and Oslo (though the Oslo is split into three different CDs). If anyone knows of any other recordings please share.

    The Jazz Icons DVD of Mingus contains a Belgium television broadcast, rehearsal in Stockholm, and part of the Oslo concert - a real treasure this collection, pick it up if you haven't already.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOd4TlP7MP8
    "This human thing in instrumental playing, has to do with trying to get as much human warmth and feeling into my work as I can. I want to say more on my horn than I ever could in ordinary speech." - Eric Dolphy

  2. #2
    Registered User PDEE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Woodinville Wa
    Posts
    1,651
    STUTTGARD COMPLETE..8 TRACKS

    17.00 on Amazon

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    7°29' E; 47°14' N
    Posts
    6,830
    Mingus in Europe was recorded in Wuppertal on April 26.

    I also have an LP called Town Hall Concert (Bellaphon/Fantasy/Galaxy BLPS 19051). On the sleeve it says "Recorded at Tyrone Guthrie Theater, Minneapolis". But from elsewhere I have the info that it was recorded in New York, either on April 2 or 4. The LP includes "So Long Eric" and "Praying with Eric" (which is really "Meditations on Integration").

    I don't know if this is of interest to you: I caught one of the group's gigs from that European tour myself. It was in Biel/Bienne (Switzerland) on April 1964. (They played another one in Zurich the day after – or before? - that).

    At that time I was a relative newcomer to jazz, and the Biel concert was probably my first one by a big-name band. In retrospect, it was one of the greatest experiences of my life, and I'm sure it was at least partly responsible for my staying with Mingus, and with jazz altogether, ever since.

    At the beginning, Mingus had Jaki Byard do his solo spot. Although we admired Byard's technique, a number of adolescents (myself included) found his stride piano a bit too corny. – Then came the full band (without Johnny Coles, and Mingus explained that Coles' part would have to be played by the other musicians). Clifford Jordan was the first to solo, and he was fine. Then came Byard, and then --- Dolphy! His first alto solo put everything else in perspective. Dolphy was simply incredible! I'd never heard anything like his brand of stratospheric be-bop. And his bass clarinet, and his flute! Wow! And then Mingus' bass playing – incredible again! And his duets with Dolphy and Richmond! I could hardly believe my eyes and ears.

    Among the numbers they played that night was "Fables of Faubus" (which I knew, since I already owned Mingus Ah Um), as well as (of course) "Meditations on Integration". This one made some of the audience walk out, because it seems to have been too "classical", too much like modern European music. I stayed, and took in every note and every sound of the concert.

    At one point during the concert there was an interruption. Apparently Mingus had spotted somebody with a tape recorder somewhere, so, in the middle of a Dolphy solo, he stopped the band. Dolphy didn't realize what was going on and continued playing, so Mingus went up to him and pulled the sax out of Dolphy's mouth. Then he gave a lengthy lecture about illicit recording, before the band continued where they had left off – in the middle of the Dolphy solo!

    A night to remember, and if any concert has ever changed my life, it must have been this one.

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    694
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom K View Post
    Mingus in Europe was recorded in Wuppertal on April 26.

    I also have an LP called Town Hall Concert (Bellaphon/Fantasy/Galaxy BLPS 19051). On the sleeve it says "Recorded at Tyrone Guthrie Theater, Minneapolis". But from elsewhere I have the info that it was recorded in New York, either on April 2 or 4. The LP includes "So Long Eric" and "Praying with Eric" (which is really "Meditations on Integration").

    I don't know if this is of interest to you: I caught one of the group's gigs from that European tour myself. It was in Biel/Bienne (Switzerland) on April 1964. (They played another one in Zurich the day after – or before? - that).

    At that time I was a relative newcomer to jazz, and the Biel concert was probably my first one by a big-name band. In retrospect, it was one of the greatest experiences of my life, and I'm sure it was at least partly responsible for my staying with Mingus, and with jazz altogether, ever since.

    At the beginning, Mingus had Jaki Byard do his solo spot. Although we admired Byard's technique, a number of adolescents (myself included) found his stride piano a bit too corny. – Then came the full band (without Johnny Coles, and Mingus explained that Coles' part would have to be played by the other musicians). Clifford Jordan was the first to solo, and he was fine. Then came Byard, and then --- Dolphy! His first alto solo put everything else in perspective. Dolphy was simply incredible! I'd never heard anything like his brand of stratospheric be-bop. And his bass clarinet, and his flute! Wow! And then Mingus' bass playing – incredible again! And his duets with Dolphy and Richmond! I could hardly believe my eyes and ears.

    Among the numbers they played that night was "Fables of Faubus" (which I knew, since I already owned Mingus Ah Um), as well as (of course) "Meditations on Integration". This one made some of the audience walk out, because it seems to have been too "classical", too much like modern European music. I stayed, and took in every note and every sound of the concert.

    At one point during the concert there was an interruption. Apparently Mingus had spotted somebody with a tape recorder somewhere, so, in the middle of a Dolphy solo, he stopped the band. Dolphy didn't realize what was going on and continued playing, so Mingus went up to him and pulled the sax out of Dolphy's mouth. Then he gave a lengthy lecture about illicit recording, before the band continued where they had left off – in the middle of the Dolphy solo!

    A night to remember, and if any concert has ever changed my life, it must have been this one.
    Wow, I would loved to have seen that! I have only seen the Oslo '64 video, and even that was exciting! I mean, how cool is Clifford Jordan? , with Dolphy waiting politely in the wings for his solo, which when it came, just made me convulse with laughter! Statospheric bebop is a good description. Amazing!

  5. #5
    Registered User Jeffrey Wozniak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Shelby Twp, Michigan
    Posts
    125
    1964 was such a wonderful year for jazz. Not only did you have this great Mingus band 1964 also brought us Coltrane's "A Love Supreme", Ayler's "Spiritual Unity", Dolphy's "Out To Lunch" and Blakey's "Free For All".

  6. #6
    Registered User Funkin''s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    150
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom K View Post
    Mingus in Europe was recorded in Wuppertal on April 26.

    I also have an LP called Town Hall Concert (Bellaphon/Fantasy/Galaxy BLPS 19051). On the sleeve it says "Recorded at Tyrone Guthrie Theater, Minneapolis". But from elsewhere I have the info that it was recorded in New York, either on April 2 or 4. The LP includes "So Long Eric" and "Praying with Eric" (which is really "Meditations on Integration").

    I don't know if this is of interest to you: I caught one of the group's gigs from that European tour myself. It was in Biel/Bienne (Switzerland) on April 1964. (They played another one in Zurich the day after – or before? - that).

    At that time I was a relative newcomer to jazz, and the Biel concert was probably my first one by a big-name band. In retrospect, it was one of the greatest experiences of my life, and I'm sure it was at least partly responsible for my staying with Mingus, and with jazz altogether, ever since.

    At the beginning, Mingus had Jaki Byard do his solo spot. Although we admired Byard's technique, a number of adolescents (myself included) found his stride piano a bit too corny. – Then came the full band (without Johnny Coles, and Mingus explained that Coles' part would have to be played by the other musicians). Clifford Jordan was the first to solo, and he was fine. Then came Byard, and then --- Dolphy! His first alto solo put everything else in perspective. Dolphy was simply incredible! I'd never heard anything like his brand of stratospheric be-bop. And his bass clarinet, and his flute! Wow! And then Mingus' bass playing – incredible again! And his duets with Dolphy and Richmond! I could hardly believe my eyes and ears.

    Among the numbers they played that night was "Fables of Faubus" (which I knew, since I already owned Mingus Ah Um), as well as (of course) "Meditations on Integration". This one made some of the audience walk out, because it seems to have been too "classical", too much like modern European music. I stayed, and took in every note and every sound of the concert.

    At one point during the concert there was an interruption. Apparently Mingus had spotted somebody with a tape recorder somewhere, so, in the middle of a Dolphy solo, he stopped the band. Dolphy didn't realize what was going on and continued playing, so Mingus went up to him and pulled the sax out of Dolphy's mouth. Then he gave a lengthy lecture about illicit recording, before the band continued where they had left off – in the middle of the Dolphy solo!

    A night to remember, and if any concert has ever changed my life, it must have been this one.
    What a story. Thank you very much for that.

    I'll have to find the Oslo concert that princeplanet is talking about. I'm pretty sure I have no Mingus concerts on video.

  7. #7
    Registered User Extrapolation's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    92
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom K View Post
    Mingus in Europe was recorded in Wuppertal on April 26.

    I also have an LP called Town Hall Concert (Bellaphon/Fantasy/Galaxy BLPS 19051). On the sleeve it says "Recorded at Tyrone Guthrie Theater, Minneapolis". But from elsewhere I have the info that it was recorded in New York, either on April 2 or 4. The LP includes "So Long Eric" and "Praying with Eric" (which is really "Meditations on Integration").

    I don't know if this is of interest to you: I caught one of the group's gigs from that European tour myself. It was in Biel/Bienne (Switzerland) on April 1964. (They played another one in Zurich the day after – or before? - that).

    At that time I was a relative newcomer to jazz, and the Biel concert was probably my first one by a big-name band. In retrospect, it was one of the greatest experiences of my life, and I'm sure it was at least partly responsible for my staying with Mingus, and with jazz altogether, ever since.

    At the beginning, Mingus had Jaki Byard do his solo spot. Although we admired Byard's technique, a number of adolescents (myself included) found his stride piano a bit too corny. – Then came the full band (without Johnny Coles, and Mingus explained that Coles' part would have to be played by the other musicians). Clifford Jordan was the first to solo, and he was fine. Then came Byard, and then --- Dolphy! His first alto solo put everything else in perspective. Dolphy was simply incredible! I'd never heard anything like his brand of stratospheric be-bop. And his bass clarinet, and his flute! Wow! And then Mingus' bass playing – incredible again! And his duets with Dolphy and Richmond! I could hardly believe my eyes and ears.

    Among the numbers they played that night was "Fables of Faubus" (which I knew, since I already owned Mingus Ah Um), as well as (of course) "Meditations on Integration". This one made some of the audience walk out, because it seems to have been too "classical", too much like modern European music. I stayed, and took in every note and every sound of the concert.

    At one point during the concert there was an interruption. Apparently Mingus had spotted somebody with a tape recorder somewhere, so, in the middle of a Dolphy solo, he stopped the band. Dolphy didn't realize what was going on and continued playing, so Mingus went up to him and pulled the sax out of Dolphy's mouth. Then he gave a lengthy lecture about illicit recording, before the band continued where they had left off – in the middle of the Dolphy solo!

    A night to remember, and if any concert has ever changed my life, it must have been this one.
    Thank you very much for sharing that, man I can only imagine what it would have been like to see them live. There's a review on Amazon for the Complete Amsterdam concert I believe and someone recounts their experience seeing Mingus in 1964 and the sentiment is the same: a life-changing experience. "Fables Of Faubus" always has some insane bass clarinet, especially when Mingus starts playing the bass line from "Ysabel's Table Dance" and Dolphy lets loose. "Meditations" would have been amazing to see live as well, that piece is so ridiculously complex and beautiful; listening to it now, Dolphy just launched into his bass clarinet solo. There's little information on the setlist from your show on those pages I listed but do you remember if they played any numbers that weren't played as often like "Take The 'A' Train" or "Peggy's Blue Skylight"?

    About Town Hall Concert, that's interesting your sleeve says Minneapolis, mine doesn't specify at all, although Mingus' liner notes make it pretty clear it was recorded in New York.

    PDEE: Thanks very much I didn't know that CD existed I will definitely pick that up soon.

    Jeffrey Wozniak: Don't forget Point Of Departure!

    Funkin': The Oslo show excerpt is on the Mingus Jazz Icons DVD (series 2), it also contains a TV broadcast from Belgium (sans Johnny Coles) where they play "So Long Eric", "Peggy's Blue Skylight" and "Meditations", and rehearsal footage from Stockholm (with Coles) where they play "So Long Eric" and "Meditations". http://www.amazon.com/Jazz-Icons-Cha.../dp/B000TNJIJM
    "This human thing in instrumental playing, has to do with trying to get as much human warmth and feeling into my work as I can. I want to say more on my horn than I ever could in ordinary speech." - Eric Dolphy

  8. #8
    Registered User xybert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    NZ
    Posts
    1,589
    I have this from the european tour:



    http://mingus.onttonen.info/details/.../bdcd1524.html

    Awesome music.

    And that is an awesome story Tom K!

  9. #9
    Registered User Extrapolation's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    92
    Thanks xybert, looks like that one would be pretty difficult to find; did you stumble upon it in a record store? How's the sound quality?

    Apparently there's a bootleg called Astral Weeks that's just two tracks, "Fables" and "Meditations", from Copenhagen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_...s_Mingus_album)
    "This human thing in instrumental playing, has to do with trying to get as much human warmth and feeling into my work as I can. I want to say more on my horn than I ever could in ordinary speech." - Eric Dolphy

  10. #10
    Registered User Extrapolation's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    92
    I just got back from Amoeba Records and found Astral Weeks and another CD called Fables Of Faubus which has "Fables", "Peggy's Blue Skylight", and "Parkeriana". The label is Four Star, looks like a bootleg. There is no mention anywhere as to where it was recorded but when I get a chance to listen to it closely I'll let you guys know if it is the same material on some of the more readily available releases.

    EDIT: Just looking at the times, it looks like the material on Fables Of Faubus is the same as the tracks from Revenge! The Legendary Paris Concerts.
    "This human thing in instrumental playing, has to do with trying to get as much human warmth and feeling into my work as I can. I want to say more on my horn than I ever could in ordinary speech." - Eric Dolphy

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    7°29' E; 47°14' N
    Posts
    6,830
    Quote Originally Posted by Extrapolation View Post
    There's little information on the setlist from your show on those pages I listed but do you remember if they played any numbers that weren't played as often like "Take The 'A' Train" or "Peggy's Blue Skylight"?
    Sorry, no - I don't remember any of the other numbers played. As I said, I was relatively new to jazz the and didn't know much about it yet.

    BTW - I've just remembered another detail about that concert: Mingus was surprisingly slim at the time, unlike the pictures I had seen of him.

    And you can imagine the shock I had when, about two or three months later, I heard of Dolphy's premature death.

  12. #12
    Registered User xybert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    NZ
    Posts
    1,589
    Quote Originally Posted by Extrapolation View Post
    Thanks xybert, looks like that one would be pretty difficult to find; did you stumble upon it in a record store? How's the sound quality?
    Yeah, found a second hand copy at a record store when i went to buy pretty much whatever Mingus they had in stock that i didn't already have... sound quality is not the best but not too bad either, highly enjoyable although i haven't heard anything else from the European tour so YMMV... continuing to explore and get deeper into Mingus' music is something i'm looking forward to doing in 2012... seriously need to get my hands on 'The Great Concert', among many others... Cheers.

  13. #13
    Registered User Extrapolation's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    92
    Quote Originally Posted by xybert View Post
    Yeah, found a second hand copy at a record store when i went to buy pretty much whatever Mingus they had in stock that i didn't already have... sound quality is not the best but not too bad either, highly enjoyable although i haven't heard anything else from the European tour so YMMV... continuing to explore and get deeper into Mingus' music is something i'm looking forward to doing in 2012... seriously need to get my hands on 'The Great Concert', among many others... Cheers.
    Thanks for the info, hopefully I come across that recording soon.

    If that's the only recording you have of this band, Great Concert... as you said is great, and I would also suggest picking up Cornell 1964 and Complete Live In Amsterdam to start with, although you'll probably end up getting everything you can find from this group!
    "This human thing in instrumental playing, has to do with trying to get as much human warmth and feeling into my work as I can. I want to say more on my horn than I ever could in ordinary speech." - Eric Dolphy

  14. #14
    Registered User xybert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    NZ
    Posts
    1,589
    Quote Originally Posted by Extrapolation View Post
    Thanks for the info, hopefully I come across that recording soon.

    If that's the only recording you have of this band, Great Concert... as you said is great, and I would also suggest picking up Cornell 1964 and Complete Live In Amsterdam to start with, although you'll probably end up getting everything you can find from this group!
    Cheers for the recs; i have Cornell 1964 (awesome) but apart from the album i posted above, that's it from 1964. I'm going to pace myself though; in the last year i've picked up a lot of Mingus, and i really want to take my time and savour it before picking up more. It's great to know that there's a heap more great stuff waiting in the wings! Cheers.

  15. #15
    Registered User Extrapolation's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    92
    Just picked this one up:



    Has the same tunes as the video recording on the Mingus Jazz Icons DVD (So Long Eric, Orange Was The Colour Of Her Dress..., "A" Train, and truncated Parkeriana). The rest of the show seems to be on two other releases that I have a feeling will be very difficult to find (Fables Of Faubus, Meditations, Parkeriana, Orange Was The Colour Of Her Dress...). The Jazz Icons DVD looks like it was the first set, so I assume the tunes on these two releases are the second set, with a different "Orange..." and a full "Parkeriana".



    Picked up Stuttgart Meditations as well. The reviews on Amazon mentioned issues with fade-outs and incomplete performances, when I receive I will let you guys know. Also picked up this LP:



    Same tunes as on the aforementioned CD except for "ATFW" and "Sophisticated Lady". It will be interesting to hear the differences between the vinyl and CD; very excited to hear performances of these tunes that I have never heard before.

    Quote Originally Posted by xybert View Post
    Cheers for the recs; i have Cornell 1964 (awesome) but apart from the album i posted above, that's it from 1964. I'm going to pace myself though; in the last year i've picked up a lot of Mingus, and i really want to take my time and savour it before picking up more. It's great to know that there's a heap more great stuff waiting in the wings! Cheers.
    No problem, I forgot to recommend Town Hall Concert; that's another one I usually include when introducing people to this band.
    "This human thing in instrumental playing, has to do with trying to get as much human warmth and feeling into my work as I can. I want to say more on my horn than I ever could in ordinary speech." - Eric Dolphy

Similar Threads

  1. All Things Dolphy!!!
    By CoyotePalace in forum Artists & Bands
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: April 6th, 2014, 06:41 PM
  2. Charles Mingus Sextet with Eric Dolphy -- Cornell 1964
    By xricci in forum Releases, Recommendations & Reviews
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: September 13th, 2007, 07:40 AM
  3. Charles Mingus Sextet with Eric Dolphy -- Cornell 1964
    By xricci in forum Releases, Recommendations & Reviews
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: July 21st, 2007, 01:48 AM
  4. Thoughts?
    By Enlightenment Now in forum General Music Discussion
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: June 6th, 2007, 02:50 PM
  5. Record Valuation
    By matty_73 in forum Artists & Bands
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: May 5th, 2006, 06:26 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  




Support the All About Jazz website and forum. Make a donation today!



Download the Jazz Near You iOS app

Download the Jazz Near You iOS app - Free!

Never miss another jazz concert again! Jazz Near You is a simple yet powerful way for fans to discover who is playing where and when. Access local jazz events by date, by distance, by venue, by musician or by festival; map to venues, set reminders, and get detailed information about musicians. Jazz Near You is your complete guide to jazz music near you! Download it now.



Visit All About Jazz at Twitter   Twitter Visit All About Jazz at Facebook   Facebook Use the All About Jazz content widgets on your website or blog   Widgets Subscribe to the All About Jazz RSS feeds   Feeds


All About Jazz | Jazz Near You | Jazz Musician Directory | Jazz News | Jazz Photo Gallery