Page 8 of 15 FirstFirst 123456789101112131415 LastLast
Results 106 to 120 of 213

Thread: zimmerman shoots martin

  1. #106
    Registered User Jeffrey Wozniak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Shelby Twp, Michigan
    Posts
    125
    Dialogue about this is badly needed as well.


    Published on HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com (http://hamptonroads.com)
    A beating at Church and Brambleton

    Wave after wave of young men surged forward to take turns punching and kicking their victim.

    The victim's friend, a young woman, tried to pull him back into his car. Attackers came after her, pulling her hair, punching her head and causing a bloody scratch to the surface of her eye. She called 911. A recording told her all lines were busy. She called again. Busy. On her third try, she got through and, hysterical, could scream only their location.

    Church and Brambleton. Church and Brambleton. Church and Brambleton.

    It happened four blocks from where they work, here at The Virginian-Pilot.

    Two weeks have passed since reporters Dave Forster and Marjon Rostami - friends to me and many others at the newspaper - were attacked on a Saturday night as they drove home from a show at the Attucks Theatre. They had stopped at a red light, in a crowd of at least 100 young people walking on the sidewalk. Rostami locked her car door. Someone threw a rock at her window. Forster got out to confront the rock-thrower, and that's when the beating began.

    Neither suffered grave injuries, but both were out of work for a week. Forster's torso ached from blows to his ribs, and he retained a thumb-sized bump on his head. Rostami fears to be alone in her home. Forster wishes he'd stayed in the car.

    Many stories that begin this way end much worse. Another colleague recently wrote about the final defendant to be sentenced in the beating death of 19-year-old James Robertson in East Ocean View five years ago. In that case, a swarm of gang members attacked Robertson and two friends. Robertson's friends got away and called for help; police arrived to find Robertson's stripped, swollen corpse.

    Forster and Rostami's story has not, until today, appeared in this paper. The responding officer coded the incident as a simple assault, despite their assertions that at least 30 people had participated in the attack. A reporter making routine checks of police reports would see "simple assault" and, if the names were unfamiliar, would be unlikely to write about it. In this case, editors hesitated to assign a story about their own employees. Would it seem like the paper treated its employees differently from other crime victims?

    More questions loomed.

    Forster and Rostami wondered if the officer who answered their call treated all crime victims the same way. When Rostami, who admits she was hysterical, tried to describe what had happened, she says the officer told her to shut up and get in the car. Both said the officer did not record any names of witnesses who stopped to help. Rostami said the officer told them the attackers were "probably juveniles anyway. What are we going to do? Find their parents and tell them?"

    The officer pointed to public housing in the area and said large groups of teenagers look for trouble on the weekends. "It's what they do," he told Forster.

    Could that be true? Could violent mobs of teens be so commonplace in Norfolk that police and victims have no recourse?

    Police spokesman Chris Amos said officers often respond to reports of crowds fighting; sirens are usually enough to disperse the group. On that night, he said, a report of gunfire in a nearby neighborhood prompted the officer to decide getting Forster and Rostami off the street quickly made more sense than remaining at the intersection. The officer gave them his card and told them to call later to file a report.

    The next day, Forster searched Twitter for mention of the attack.

    One post chilled him.

    "I feel for the white man who got beat up at the light," wrote one person.

    "I don't," wrote another, indicating laughter. "(do it for trayvon martin)"

    Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black teen, died after being shot by a community watch captain with white and Hispanic parents, George Zimmerman, in Florida.

    Forster and Rostami, both white, suffered a beating at the hands of a crowd of black teenagers.

    Was either case racially motivated? Were Forster and Rostami beaten in some kind of warped, vigilante retribution for a killing 750 miles away, a person none of them knew? Was it just bombast? Is a beating funny, ever?

    Here's why their story is in the paper today. We cannot allow such callousness to continue unremarked, from the irrational, senseless teenagers who attacked two people just trying to go home, from the police officer whose conduct may have been typical but certainly seems cold, from the tweeting nitwits who think beating a man in Norfolk will change the death of Trayvon Martin.

    How can we change it if we don't know about it? How can we make it better if we look away?

    Are we really no better than this?

    Michelle Washington is a columnist for The Virginian-Pilot. Email: michelle.washington@pilotonline.com

  2. #107
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    625
    jeffery, what i suggest is that, we dont really need to compare every black on white beat down with implications of revenge for martin with what happened to martin because of zimmerman.

    that is something else...another discusion

    what is really important to look at here in the martin case is, why are young black men dressed a certain way , or, just out on the street, asumed to be guilty of something , need to be feared, and, why do various innocent unarmed black people get killed like this, thinking they are armed and dangerous? the police are guilty of this in various cases

    this is the question and should be the major focus. its not about black on white crime...that is another subject. it clouds the issue of why are young black men getting stereotyped and killed when they are innocent ?

    this is a reflection of racism in our society and even if zimmerman is hispanic, he is acting on a stereotype in our society that implicates young black men, as if they didnt have enough obsticles against them in a racist society anyway. does anyone here really think we arnt a racist society or trapped in our slavery past?

    as well as, what do we really want out of "neighborhood watch"? do we ever want these people armed ? going after suspects? shouldnt there be some law that sais they have to stand down and only notify police?

  3. #108
    Oppressed into submission jazzbluescat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Spring Lake, NC
    Posts
    6,654
    Quote Originally Posted by good rhythms View Post
    jeffery, what i suggest is that, we dont really need to compare every black on white beat down with implications of revenge for martin with what happened to martin because of zimmerman.

    that is something else...another discusion

    what is really important to look at here in the martin case is, why are young black men dressed a certain way , or, just out on the street, asumed to be guilty of something , need to be feared, and, why do various innocent unarmed black people get killed like this, thinking they are armed and dangerous? the police are guilty of this in various cases

    this is the question and should be the major focus. its not about black on white crime...that is another subject. it clouds the issue of why are young black men getting stereotyped and killed when they are innocent ?

    this is a reflection of racism in our society and even if zimmerman is hispanic, he is acting on a stereotype in our society that implicates young black men, as if they didnt have enough obsticles against them in a racist society anyway. does anyone here really think we arnt a racist society or trapped in our slavery past?

    as well as, what do we really want out of "neighborhood watch"? do we ever want these people armed ? going after suspects? shouldnt there be some law that sais they have to stand down and only notify police?
    Makes sense, but to people no longer young, whom don't understand that acting the persona of a thug is probably a benign issue, they can be overly defensive. I mean going deeper than the clown thug clothing, going to how one projects himself can be intimidating to older people, and especially among even racist individuals (of all races).
    A lot of good arguments are ruined by some fool who knows what he's talking about.

  4. #109
    Piano/Compose/Arrange engelbach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Pátzcuaro, Michoacán, México
    Posts
    7,472
    Quote Originally Posted by good rhythms View Post
    jeffery, what i suggest is that, we dont really need to compare every black on white beat down with implications of revenge for martin with what happened to martin because of zimmerman.

    that is something else...another discusion

    what is really important to look at here in the martin case is, why are young black men dressed a certain way , or, just out on the street, asumed to be guilty of something , need to be feared, and, why do various innocent unarmed black people get killed like this, thinking they are armed and dangerous? the police are guilty of this in various cases

    this is the question and should be the major focus. its not about black on white crime...that is another subject. it clouds the issue of why are young black men getting stereotyped and killed when they are innocent ?

    this is a reflection of racism in our society and even if zimmerman is hispanic, he is acting on a stereotype in our society that implicates young black men, as if they didnt have enough obsticles against them in a racist society anyway. does anyone here really think we arnt a racist society or trapped in our slavery past?

    as well as, what do we really want out of "neighborhood watch"? do we ever want these people armed ? going after suspects? shouldnt there be some law that sais they have to stand down and only notify police?
    Agree.
    Jerry Engelbach, piano/arrange/compose
    Engelbach Music
    Weaver of Dreams
    Artwork

  5. #110
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    L.A.
    Posts
    474
    Quote Originally Posted by jazzbluescat View Post
    Makes sense, but to people no longer young, whom don't understand that acting the persona of a thug is probably a benign issue, they can be overly defensive. I mean going deeper than the clown thug clothing, going to how one projects himself can be intimidating to older people, and especially among even racist individuals (of all races).
    Why does a black man/boy wearing a hoodie equate to "acting the persona of a thug" to you and people like you? Your label of "clown thug clothing" is very insulting.

  6. #111
    Oppressed into submission jazzbluescat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Spring Lake, NC
    Posts
    6,654
    Quote Originally Posted by Cali View Post
    Why does a black man/boy wearing a hoodie equate to "acting the persona of a thug" to you and people like you? Your label of "clown thug clothing" is very insulting.
    It's not just the hoodie, IMO, it's about how you carry yourself, the vibes and persona you project. Some people don't have a deep understanding of the (Black) youth culture nor do they care, and judge one by appearance(not race). Like, some people like to project themselves as badasses, for fun. Well, some people don't realize it's for "fun" and take them serious. Lots of misunderstanding can evolve.

    I assume we're talking about people that are strangers to one another. If I know someone, or after I get to know them, it's may be different, of course.

    I'm just making a logical observation, don't mean to insult anyone.

    BTW, I wear a hoodie most of the time when the weather is cool, nobody's shied away from me, thinking I'm a thug.
    A lot of good arguments are ruined by some fool who knows what he's talking about.

  7. #112
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    L.A.
    Posts
    474
    Quote Originally Posted by jazzbluescat View Post
    It's not just the hoodie, IMO, it's about how you carry yourself, the vibes and persona you project. Some people don't have a deep understanding of the (Black) youth culture nor do they care, and judge one by appearance(not race). Like, some people like to project themselves as badasses, for fun. Well, some people don't realize it's for "fun" and take them serious. Lots of misunderstanding can evolve.

    BTW, I wear a hoodie most of the time when the weather is cool, nobody's shied away from me, thinking I'm a thug.
    Could it be because you're white? Besides you weren't addressing white people in hoodies.

    BTW Trayvon Martin wasn't white.

  8. #113
    AAJ's Big Nose jkelman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    7,392
    Quote Originally Posted by jazzbluescat View Post
    It's not just the hoodie, IMO, it's about how you carry yourself, the vibes and persona you project. Some people don't have a deep understanding of the (Black) youth culture nor do they care, and judge one by appearance(not race). Like, some people like to project themselves as badasses, for fun. Well, some people don't realize it's for "fun" and take them serious. Lots of misunderstanding can evolve..
    Sorry, but I spent two weeks with the 26 year-old music editor of Vibe Magazine in Cape Town earlier this year, and he wears the clothes and has some of the "attitude" (whatever that is), but a "thug" is as far away from how I'd describe this guy as you can get, from the very start. Didn't talk as much as the rest of us, but when he did, it was clear that he was firing a lot of brain cylinders - maybe more than the rest of us.

    Clothes and walk should not be construed as anything but clothes and walk, not an indicator of personality, attitude or intent. If they do, the problem is usually with the person making the assumption.

  9. #114
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    L.A.
    Posts
    474
    I could not have said it better. Thank you.

  10. #115
    Oppressed into submission jazzbluescat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Spring Lake, NC
    Posts
    6,654
    I'm not going to get into a discussion on this matter with those that half read and/or misinterpret my posts.
    A lot of good arguments are ruined by some fool who knows what he's talking about.

  11. #116
    AAJ's Big Nose jkelman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    7,392
    Quote Originally Posted by jazzbluescat View Post
    I'm not going to get into a discussion on this matter with those that half read and/or misinterpret my posts.
    Nobody half-read your post or misinterpreted (speaking for myself), and I was not being critical of you personally. However, when you say:

    it's about how you carry yourself, the vibes and persona you project.
    ...my point is it comes down to how the projection is perceived - or, worse, misconstrued. Using my example, some folks would have seen my travel partner walking down the street, and based on what they perceive, would have viewed his walk and vibe to project one thing, when, in fact, they couldn't be more wrong. Why that is, now that is the real question.

    Because, at the end of the day, perception is. And that can be a good thing or a very, very bad thing. Our perceptions are often based on our own experiences, lives and cultures, and if traveling to a lot of different places in the last few years has taught me anything, is that it's really important to try NOT to use your own frames of reference in judging others, especially when there are large cultural differences, as in almost every case you'd be mistaken or making improper assessments.

  12. #117
    Oppressed into submission jazzbluescat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Spring Lake, NC
    Posts
    6,654
    Quote Originally Posted by jkelman View Post
    Nobody half-read your post or misinterpreted (speaking for myself), and I was not being critical of you personally. However, when you say:



    ...my point is it comes down to how the projection is perceived - or, worse, misconstrued. Using my example, some folks would have seen my travel partner walking down the street, and based on what they perceive, would have viewed his walk and vibe to project one thing, when, in fact, they couldn't be more wrong. Why that is, now that is the real question.

    Because, at the end of the day, perception is. And that can be a good thing or a very, very bad thing. Our perceptions are often based on our own experiences, lives and cultures, and if traveling to a lot of different places in the last few years has taught me anything, is that it's really important to try NOT to use your own frames of reference in judging others, especially when there are large cultural differences, as in almost every case you'd be mistaken or making improper assessments.
    I understand all that you're saying. But I like to think that my first impression of people usually alerts me of the true character of a person, at least to their maturity level, or if there's danger in following up, getting to know them. I'm not a psychiatrist and do not attempt to understand why a person dresses nor projects himself as a thug. Life's too short and besides, that usually comes back to bite me on the ass. I'm speaking generally, and realize there are exceptions. If a particular attraction is stronger than usual or business calls for it, I'll make an extra effort.
    A lot of good arguments are ruined by some fool who knows what he's talking about.

  13. #118
    Registered User Jeffrey Wozniak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Shelby Twp, Michigan
    Posts
    125
    Quote Originally Posted by Cali View Post
    BTW Trayvon Martin wasn't white.

    Neither is Zimmerman, BTW

  14. #119
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    L.A.
    Posts
    474
    Zimmerman wasn't wearing a hoodie. Zimmerman wasn't presumed to be a thug. Zimmerman wasn't shot and killed, BTW

  15. #120
    Oppressed into submission jazzbluescat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Spring Lake, NC
    Posts
    6,654
    I believe the "hoodie" issue is a media creation.
    A lot of good arguments are ruined by some fool who knows what he's talking about.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: July 1st, 2011, 02:28 PM
  2. Medeski Martin and Wood: Medeski Martin and Wood: Radiolarians III
    By RSS Feed Guy in forum RSS Feed Articles
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: August 16th, 2009, 01:20 AM
  3. 'Laugh-In' Dick Martin
    By jonesy in forum Non-Music Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: May 25th, 2008, 11:00 AM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: November 5th, 2007, 07:50 AM
  5. Diana Krall concert rider
    By justHerb in forum General Music Discussion
    Replies: 78
    Last Post: July 17th, 2007, 02:38 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  




Support the All About Jazz website and forum. Make a donation today!



Download the Jazz Near You iOS app

Download the Jazz Near You iOS app - Free!

Never miss another jazz concert again! Jazz Near You is a simple yet powerful way for fans to discover who is playing where and when. Access local jazz events by date, by distance, by venue, by musician or by festival; map to venues, set reminders, and get detailed information about musicians. Jazz Near You is your complete guide to jazz music near you! Download it now.



Visit All About Jazz at Twitter   Twitter Visit All About Jazz at Facebook   Facebook Use the All About Jazz content widgets on your website or blog   Widgets Subscribe to the All About Jazz RSS feeds   Feeds


All About Jazz | Jazz Near You | Jazz Musician Directory | Jazz News | Jazz Photo Gallery