Playing Chords between both hands (piano,bebop)

[iguessso]

Can someone help break this down for me? In a bebop context like Bud Powell would play; I understand shell voicings as played R7 or R10 in the LH alone but how would you go about in a comping style breaking chords up into using both hands?

I think drop 2s have some part but how would you approach for instance on something like a bebop blues or orthwise?

[engelbach]

Generally, you would fill in the chords' missing notes in the right hand. There are various ways to do this for more consonant or more textural sounds.

Here's an example of a possible shell-chord comp for a blues in Bb. These are just the bare chords. In playing them, you might break up the rhythm and add passing notes between them.



A comp has a melody of its own. Transitions should be smooth in the top voices.

[zcottovision]

Usually I would play thirds and sevenths in the left hand, then the extraneous notes in the right hand. This kind of separation only works with a bass player playing the roots. For example, for a Cmaj7 I might play LH E and B, RH D, G.

This method also lends itself to easy understanding of upper structures to make the harmony sound richer. For example, if I wanted to play a C7#11, I'd play LH E and Bb, RH D, F# and A, a D major triad.

The key thing is to avoid repeating notes throughout the voicing. Avoid doubled thirds and fifths, octaves are ok, extensions are to be avoided.

[jazzman1945]

Build a chord means reproduce fragment of overtone series in some combination, so you need primarily to learn firmly first 15 overtones .

Placing of notes in a voicing according to the logic of acoustics provides its good sound. . This refers to the order of the chord and non-chord tones, as well as the intervals between them.
The second system without doubling overtones clearly shows the hierarchy of dissonance sounds - from zero to maximum.

[Ken]

Interesting Nachum. Looking at the Bass Area how low can you typically go with those intervals on the piano?

For example with just the Closed Position (4 note voicing) the lowest I go is around C or D below middle C.

[engelbach]

Originally Posted by zcottovision

Usually I would play thirds and sevenths in the left hand, then the extraneous notes in the right hand. This kind of separation only works with a bass player playing the roots. For example, for a Cmaj7 I might play LH E and B, RH D, G.

This method also lends itself to easy understanding of upper structures to make the harmony sound richer. For example, if I wanted to play a C7#11, I'd play LH E and Bb, RH D, F# and A, a D major triad.

The key thing is to avoid repeating notes throughout the voicing. Avoid doubled thirds and fifths, octaves are ok, extensions are to be avoided.

For me, both of these things depend on context.

Doubling is okay when it's part of good voice leading or to preserve a texture; i.e., used with discretion. You might disagree with my voicings of E° and Cm7 in my example above, but I think they work okay. In the E°, either the root or the third is going to be doubled because of voice leading. And in the Cm7, playing just the root in the left hand sounds thin. Doubling the fifth imparts weight.

You refer to upper structures, which are extensions. 9ths and 13ths are common additions to ordinary 4-note chords. And your example of C7#11 (really C13#11) adds both #11 and 13.

(P.S. O.P. asked for shell voicings, a la Bud Powell, not rootless voicings.)

[jazzman1945]

Originally Posted by Ken

Interesting Nachum. Looking at the Bass Area how low can you typically go with those intervals on the piano?

For example with just the Closed Position (4 note voicing) the lowest I go is around C or D below middle C.

For the knowledge of this, there are rules of LIL - Low Interval Limits:

http://anonemusic.com/jazzTheory/low_interval_limit

[jazzman1945]

This is a scheme spreading of pitches based on overtones inside two-hands voicings- in line with the style.The order notes (inversion) and selection in each hand may vary.
http://www.mediafire.com/?bdiqazya7iaz662

[iguessso]

Thanks for the feedback. I played through Jer's voicings...More specifically I'm looking to get the the movement (or I guess passing chords) and be able to do this while comping the chords using two hands (i.e. Bud Powell).

While its not a exactly a bebop tune, this Barry Harris clip illustrates the type of two handed playing and movement I'm referring to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0lC9-85WQQ

[engelbach]

Originally Posted by iguessso

Thanks for the feedback. I played through Jer's voicings...More specifically I'm looking to get the the movement (or I guess passing chords) and be able to do this while comping the chords using two hands (i.e. Bud Powell).

While its not a exactly a bebop tune, this Barry Harris clip illustrates the type of two handed playing and movement I'm referring to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0lC9-85WQQ

Barry plays a variety of different voicings. While he mostly uses shells, he also does a lot of locked hands block chording, sometimes rootless.

He has several ways of playing passing chords.

One is to approach a chord by first playing the chord a half step above. Thus, for Bb7, play B7 - Bb7. In a progression like Fm7 - B7 - Bb7, B7 is the tritone of Fm7, so you're interposing a tritone sub, but instead of substituting B7 for Fm7 you're adding B7 to the mix.

Another thing he does that's quite common in block chording is to play a melodic phrase over a chord with diminished chords on each of the non-chordal tones. Thus, the progression Fm7 - Bb7 might be played Fm7 - G° - Fm7/Ab - A° - Bb7, with the top note doubled by the bottom note. This is a favorite technique of George Shearing.

[Ken]

There is Chord Voicings for Two Hands by Jim Progris which is quite good. It explains how to construct the voicings (with the root on the bottom) and then has you taking them through the keys, and then showing excepts from tunes showing their application.

At the end it contains 2 handed voicings of various players including Bud Powell, Bill Evans, Billy Taylor, Horace Silver, etc. for the different chord types, major, dominant 7th etc. For each chord type it shows several different variations the player uses, so it is quite extensive.

Thanks for that link Nachum.

[iguessso]

Here are a couple more illustrations of the sound I'm after.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ7oygpUgzw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7ek-P3CFjI
(not so much the block chord octaves but the more the mixing up the styles and overall sound)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Byy9cKfLizg

[Music997]

You can have the root in the left and right hand with the third or seventh in the right hand or left hand as well.

It all depends on what inversion of chord you're playing.