Enough already...

[engelbach]

The only way this latest massacre could have been prevented was for the shooter's mother to have no guns.

No background checks would have stopped him, because they would have been on her.

Gunnutz value their so-called "freedom" over the lives of children.

[Jay Norem]

CNN has been on for awhile now. People ask "why," they talk about gun control and bans on certain types of weapons, how to tell if little Chase is going to be a mass murderer.

If they really want to get to the bottom of this, my suggestion is that Pierce Morgan interview a panel consisting of the CEOs of Remington, Colt, Winchester, Bushmaster and the rest of the companies that keep their stock holders happy by selling various configurations of the AR-15 and other assault-type rifles.

If I was in the market for good all-around rifle, I'd probably get an AR-15. It's a damn good rifle.

Let's take Colt, for an example. Colt makes a very nice AR-15 rifle, how could you go wrong? But Colt doesn't give damn one about what that rifle is going to be used for. Colt likes the profit it's making, it depends on it, and baby the money is flowing in.

What is the government going to do, tell Colt that they can no longer sell that product? My guess is that would unconstitutional. And even if the government succeeded in getting all those companies to stop manufacturing assault-type weapons, wouldn't those companies be owed some kind of compensation for lost profit?

Forget about the Second Amendment, this is about pure unrelenting corporate power.

Tell me that Colt will ever agree to stop making and selling AR-15 rifles. Ha ha! Colt pays 3 million a year to lobbyists, sucker.

[Ianant]

Originally Posted by Jay Norem

CNN has been on for awhile now. People ask "why," they talk about gun control and bans on certain types of weapons, how to tell if little Chase is going to be a mass murderer.

If they really want to get to the bottom of this, my suggestion is that Pierce Morgan interview a panel consisting of the CEOs of Remington, Colt, Winchester, Bushmaster and the rest of the companies that keep their stock holders happy by selling various configurations of the AR-15 and other assault-type rifles.

If I was in the market for good all-around rifle, I'd probably get an AR-15. It's a damn good rifle.

Let's take Colt, for an example. Colt makes a very nice AR-15 rifle, how could you go wrong? But Colt doesn't give damn one about what that rifle is going to be used for. Colt likes the profit it's making, it depends on it, and baby the money is flowing in.

What is the government going to do, tell Colt that they can no longer sell that product? My guess is that would unconstitutional. And even if the government succeeded in getting all those companies to stop manufacturing assault-type weapons, wouldn't those companies be owed some kind of compensation for lost profit?

Forget about the Second Amendment, this is about pure unrelenting corporate power.

Tell me that Colt will ever agree to stop making and selling AR-15 rifles. Ha ha! Colt pays 3 million a year to lobbyists, sucker.

Yup. Ah . . . give or take a few weeks or months more and we'll be hearing some gun control rap again after the next slaughter. It's a well established pattern now. God bless America.

Oh, by the way, I'm sure fellow neighboring Mexicans will stop importing weapons manufactured in the US also and the drug lords there will get together with the CIA in singing a chorus of "Kumbaya" or "All We Are Saying Is Give Peace A Chance."

Merry Christmas all, but mind you, don't try saying that to the parents of those who died. I don't think that'll go down too well.

Score another one for the NRA and gun toting lovers. Anyone esle, with any kind of common sense or basic human decency? They seem to be stuck on zero. Fuck you NRA and the shit ass excuse of an apology you issued to the press regarding the slain. See you in hell.

Below, their shit statement:

The National Rifle Association of America is made up of four million moms and dads, sons and daughters - and we were shocked, saddened and heartbroken by the news of the horrific and senseless murders in Newtown.

Out of respect for the families, and as a matter of common decency, we have given time for mourning, prayer and a full investigation of the facts before commenting.

The NRA is prepared to offer meaningful contributions to help make sure this never happens again.

The NRA is planning to hold a major news conference in the Washington, DC area on Friday, December 21.

Sure you're shocked and saddened, but just keep them guns in circulation. That will be the gist or the long and short of your planned news conference on the 21st. But there's no need to have it. No need to defend your stance. You've long won the battle against common sense and basic human decency, and lunacy rules. Congratulations, all of you have the blood of these kids and countless others all over the world on your hands.

[harmolodic]

Originally Posted by Jay Norem

Forget about the Second Amendment, this is about pure unrelenting corporate power.

Tell me that Colt will ever agree to stop making and selling AR-15 rifles. Ha ha! Colt pays 3 million a year to lobbyists, sucker.

Damn straight. That's all this is about. The gun insanity in America is not about freedom or ideology or state's rights...it's all about money. That's all the NRA is about and that's all the manufacturers are about.

Their profits are more important than the lives of America's children.

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by Jay Norem

Forget about the Second Amendment, this is about pure unrelenting corporate power.

You can forget all you want but it's the 2nd Amendment on which that corporate wealth and power is built. Gun barbarians need no legitimate argument other than it's their God-given right printed right there on the holy constitution. If you want to "fix" this once and for all, fix the Constitution, otherwise this slaughter goes the same way as the others and is soon forgotten until the next. Hell, It's already been forgotten - Dick's in Newtown advertised an ammo sale yesterday. America's fucked.

[jav]

I have been blasted on fb for calling for gun control by those using the simplistic black and white talking points that reduce a complex issue to an easy rational for those who underneath all the rhetoric value their right to own whatever they want, and do whatever they want over the lives of others. It is hard to resist the bait and refrain from replying, but how to do that with those who have an attention span of one or two sentences at the most and a preconcieved arrogant attitude that says they must always be right and win every argument. (no such thing as a civil debate in their world...love it or leave it- I have actually been told this!)

[jazzbluescat]

Let's just say Colt stopped making the AR-15. They'd just be losing business and a few folks would lose jobs, then knock-offs would take its place; or some other similar firearm. If we stopped ALL American built and forbade ALL gun imports there'd just be a tremendous(more than now) black market.

I'm all for restricting large capacity clips and fully auto weapons, the weapons designed for the military. But, and I know it's tiresome to keep hearing it and we as a people, like some individuals, don't like to take responsibility, but people kill people, period. That's possibly where we need to make more restrictions, accessibility in this area.

[engelbach]

Originally Posted by jazzbluescat

Let's just say Colt stopped making the AR-15. They'd just be losing business and a few folks would lose jobs, then knock-offs would take its place; or some other similar firearm. If we stopped ALL American built and forbade ALL gun imports there'd just be a tremendous(more than now) black market.

I'm all for restricting large capacity clips and fully auto weapons, the weapons designed for the military. But, and I know it's tiresome to keep hearing it and we as a people, like some individuals, don't like to take responsibility, but people kill people, period. That's possibly where we need to make more restrictions, accessibility in this area.

The fear of a black market is not a justification at all. These mass murders are not committed by hardened criminals, but by unbalanced people with legal guns. It's doubtful that they would have access to guns on the black market, given the effort and the much greater expense entailed.

Without access to guns, Adam Lanza probably would not have been able to kill anyone. and since any background check was not on him, but on his mother, no other safeguards except an inaccessible key to the gun cabinet would have prevented his access. And how could that possibly be enforced?

"We as a people" would take more responsibility by banning guns.

[Ianant]

LMAO. Not funny at all. Do watch this one. Sick. Absolutely sick.

http://autos.aol.com/article/gun-dea...6pLid%3D247843

[Homer]

I am reading that video game makers are also being reviewed as another pathway to this sort of madness. I think additional regulation here too is a step in the right direction. There is no need for violent games, especially ones with high levels of realism. You can get the same level of enjoyment with toned down graphics and sound effects.

Hollywood also needs to take heed. There are shows with back woods teens carrying around guns on National Geo. There is something similar to a Jersey Shore in the works that has a positive spin on weapons.

I would go so far as to say any movie that glorifies killing and minimizes the consequences serves society no real purpose.

Add Guns + ViolentVideo + ViolentImages + UnstablePerson = Receipe for Disaster.

[good rhythms]

hard subject...what a tragedy...

for sure i wish they could address the heavy weapons, and, i respect what jazzbluescat sais about why he likes guns...

i agree, the horror is going to die down in a few weeks until the next one happens

its deeper than only guns...for most of us, we can watch violent action films and it is a release, we get that you cant do that in real life...im not sure that is the only answer, but i dont know ...for sure, this massacer thing has played out in other places in the world so its not just a usa thing, but, something here is pushing it more...

life is becoming very disgruntled for a lot of people, they want to take their life and a bunch of other people along with them...they just cant do themselves

i heard the kid freaked out because his mother was going to commit him and he lost it and killed her and the kids he must have hated and thought she was giving more attention and love...by the way, this guy has been said to have aspergers , but, that didnt make him do it, i have a brother with a high leval of aspergers and he doesnt have a violent bone in his body

i also heard that noted drummer, terry silverlights wife worked at that school, thank god she didnt get hit

[Repertoire]

One thing that should be considered in regards to gun control, is that we have hundreds of millions of citizens in the U.S. and thousands of miles of land in every direction. Smuggling is literally impossible to curb

Alcohol prohibition: created the mafia, still have alcohol

Drug prohibition: created the cartels, still have drugs

Both of these projects exasperated the national economy, put a lot of non-violent criminals in jail and of course gave rise to massive criminal syndicates.

If one wants to follow reason and practicality, rather than this ideal which will lead to expensive and inevitably failed efforts (at curbing gun ownership). There is no point in putting a ban on guns, half the country would buy them anyways and the black market isn't something from hollywood - its easy to find schedule 1 drugs or unregistered firearms. Very easy, despite the draconian laws in effect.
People risk their lives for the large profit margins created by prohibtion, its a tax free industry with massive deflation among other benefits, its a sellers market.

Someone here said the entire country should be drug tested randomly and fined for failing. Practically speaking that is impossible, one city spent $200,000 to drug test all their students (a few hundred) - the cost of implementing this across the country would be absurd.
Speaking about civil rights, this is impossible and few even who are adamantly against drugs would sign up for the idea. It's an enormous breach of privacy, a breach of the constitution, a breach of personal dignity and autonomy, and immoral. Who are you or the government to tell anyone what to put in their body?

Bear in mind that drug prohibtion has led to the creation of the Cartels (international on every continent), has pushed a massive industry into a tax free zone, put millions of non-violent citizens in jail, and in the words of Bill Clinton / Jimmy Carter (amongst many others) "failed".

Some ideas:
Drug laws Portugal
Gun laws Switzerland (edited)

[Tenorman]

he UK took the decision at the beginning of the 20th century that ownership of guns was not a right
Farmers could own shotguns
Hunting rifles could be registered providing they were kept in a secure place, hidden from sight
Gun club members could have .22 target guns, again under strict rules

Gun deaths in the US per 100,000 population -- 10.2
Switzerland that also has a very high gun owning population -- 3.5
UK -- 0.25

That is a high cost for the "right" to bear arms.

Comment from a guy who did not see a policeman with a gun until he was in his 40s. I didn't like it then, and I don't like it now, but I don't have an alternative

[Repertoire]

Originally Posted by Tenorman

Gun deaths in the US per 100,000 population -- 10.2
Switzerland that also has a very high gun owning population -- 3.5
UK -- 0.25

That's an interesting point, although that incident rate is still very small compared to the likelihood of dying in a car accident (as an example). I've lived in 4 states and 10 cities around the USA, mostly ghettos, have had numerous break-ins and confrontations of different natures. But have never heard a gun go off outside of a shooting range, guns are loud too. Decades living all over the country in bad neighborhoods, never heard a gun go off out of a firing range - let alone seeing someone shot or being shot at.
This country is pretty safe, I like my 2am walks and have rarely felt any sense of danger being out at that time of night in whatever kind of neighborhood. Basically trying to say 30 thousand is a very small number out of 400 million (1 in 13 thousand), that means if you take everyone you know with their families and friends of their families, you'll on average be associated with 1 maybe 2 people who died from a non-military gunshot wound.


I'm anti-violence in general, do not own a gun, and do not support any war I've heard of (at least from the perspective of sending troops to another country). My experience and the statistical evidence at hand, show guns to be a very small problem in this country - intentionally overblown by the media. If you go on any news local/national it will be filled with stories of violence, take a look around you and if you're in the same country I'm in you'll see a different picture than the post-apocalyptic nightmare portrayed on 7 o'clock news.

As a non-violent man, I'm arguing against gun-control because it is impractical in our country. More education is needed, less sensational violence in the media, and an end to our colonial wars overseas. Every 4 years we have another war, Iraq-Bosnia-Iraq-Afghan-Libya. Just a few years ago I was at a bar and the war in Libya was announced, we're dropping bombs on a city and don't even know why but there are people high-fiving around the bar and buying eachother drinks, cracking jokes about whole sale murder.
In my view the violence in this country would be better tackled through education and spreading compassion, ending the cycle of war and the worship of violence.

I'm completely anti-gun, but if we want results we should put our money where it'll do the most damage and gun control will inevetiably fail if we don't address the mentality behind our obsession with guns. I'm an optimist and think we'll get things on track in the next few decades

[jazzbluescat]

I read somewhere that the majority of gun deaths are suicides. If true, brings up other issues, such as the military wars we're waging.