Ambidexterity in drumming

[rinoRotti]

Hey jazz drummers (if there are any),

I've got a very simple question: how to train your ambidexterity in drumming 'to the limit'? I must say Benny Greb's method works quite well (from the DVD The Language of Drumming), but do you know any interesting exercises I could try?

[good rhythms]

learn to lead with the opisite hand ...if you are right handed, do it with the left and vice verca...just trying to switch up most of your grooves to the opisite hand will require lots of independance and endless posibilities of practice

same with feet...short of having to turn your whole kit around...try the clave with the high hat.lots of great drummers are doing that now and that requires lots of independance....

im self taught, and come up with my own shit, but, i used to work out of the pete magadini book "pollyrhtyms"...you can go through endless combinations with that

if you work with a back beat, do your footpattern and alternate the back beat with your left and right hand...dont use any ride cymbal,just back beat with alternating hands against the high hat and bass drum groove

[miharbi]

Originally Posted by rinoRotti

Hey jazz drummers (if there are any),

I've got a very simple question: how to train your ambidexterity in drumming 'to the limit'? I must say Benny Greb's method works quite well (from the DVD The Language of Drumming), but do you know any interesting exercises I could try?

I'm curious how this is training is going for you. I no longer play drums much, but I remember hitting a pretty rigid wall when it came to weak side independence. There was only so much coordination I could muster. If I could turn around a groove and master it in reverse, it was still a big challenge to improvise and be creative within it. Some drummers are blessed with superhuman coordination. I was always envious Have you been seeing gains? What's gotten easier? What hasn't?

[rinoRotti]

Originally Posted by good rhythms

learn to lead with the opisite hand ...if you are right handed, do it with the left and vice verca...just trying to switch up most of your grooves to the opisite hand will require lots of independance and endless posibilities of practice

same with feet...short of having to turn your whole kit around...try the clave with the high hat.lots of great drummers are doing that now and that requires lots of independance....

im self taught, and come up with my own shit, but, i used to work out of the pete magadini book "pollyrhtyms"...you can go through endless combinations with that

if you work with a back beat, do your footpattern and alternate the back beat with your left and right hand...dont use any ride cymbal,just back beat with alternating hands against the high hat and bass drum groove

When I lead with my left hand, my right hand becomes the issue. I have difficulities with hitting it on anything besides the 2 and 4 in a backbeat, while my left hand leads perfectly well. Is it a mindset I have to get, or a matter of time? Or both?

I'll see if I can find the DVD. Thanks!

Originally Posted by miharbi

I'm curious how this is training is going for you. I no longer play drums much, but I remember hitting a pretty rigid wall when it came to weak side independence. There was only so much coordination I could muster. If I could turn around a groove and master it in reverse, it was still a big challenge to improvise and be creative within it. Some drummers are blessed with superhuman coordination. I was always envious Have you been seeing gains? What's gotten easier? What hasn't?

I've definitely been seeing gains, especially in 16th patterns (o-ooo-ooo-ooo-oo/ooo-ooo-ooo-ooo-/-ooo-ooo-ooo-ooo etc.). I can really blast some speed with those too. I know it's not about speed, but it feels good to be able to play a fast 16th jazz ride/hi-hat pattern and keeping it stable. I'm also becoming better with left-foot independance, but I need to do a lot more training before I can pull of what I can do with my right foot.

Something that hasn't gotten easier is the problem mentioned above: strong hand independance when the weak hand leads. For some reason it's hard for me to get away from the '2 and 4' with my right hand when I play backbeats with the left hand leading. So I'm curious if I'm missing a certain mindset or if it just takes time and practice.

I hope I'm explaining it all clearly!

[miharbi]

Originally Posted by rinoRotti

I've definitely been seeing gains, especially in 16th patterns (o-ooo-ooo-ooo-oo/ooo-ooo-ooo-ooo-/-ooo-ooo-ooo-ooo etc.). I can really blast some speed with those too. I know it's not about speed, but it feels good to be able to play a fast 16th jazz ride/hi-hat pattern and keeping it stable. I'm also becoming better with left-foot independance, but I need to do a lot more training before I can pull of what I can do with my right foot.

Something that hasn't gotten easier is the problem mentioned above: strong hand independance when the weak hand leads. For some reason it's hard for me to get away from the '2 and 4' with my right hand when I play backbeats with the left hand leading. So I'm curious if I'm missing a certain mindset or if it just takes time and practice.
I hope I'm explaining it all clearly!

Definitely keep at it. It's a process of automation, and muscle memory, and it comes from practice. I don't know anything about Benny Greb's method, but in general, here's the kind of exercise I would do. Write out 10 patterns, 1 or 2 measures long. Start simple. Like steady 8th notes, every third 8th note left out, two 16ths followed by an 8th, a clave pattern, and so on. Then write 10 more patterns on a second sheet. Give one list to your right hand, the other list to your left hand, and mix and match the patterns until you can play every combination comfortably. This can get hard really fast, especially as you use longer and more complicated and less regular patterns. Like a 2-bar pattern on the left against a 3-bar one on the right, or a 3/4 pattern against a 4/4. This kind of exercise makes your brain hurt. It's not fun. It's mentally draining, if done right. That's because it targets the independence issue. It makes your limbs do what they don't naturally want to do.

Another exercise is to get your weak hand going on a somewhat challenging pattern and then improvise with your strong hand. I used to start by just hitting, once per measure, every possible 16th note beat using the strong hand. That way you're showing your muscles how it feels when ~this~ happens against ~that~ pattern.

Of course, these exercises can be made more fun by moving them around the drumset, or playing along with tunes.

Also you can sense sometimes when the weak hand doing a hi-hat pattern or whatever begins to get automated, when it slips into subconscious. That's when your other hand begins to feel free. If you get that automated feeling, and lose it, try to get it back ASAP. That mode of consciousness is the ticket.

Anyway, hope that's helpful. Maybe some actual drummers will chime in...

[good rhythms]

rinorotti...yeah, its probably both things...getting a mind set and keeping the practicing going...i find that little by little , if you go at something on a daily basis , it chips away at it and you slowly make progress, sometimes with a great "a ha", moment, or one day it comes and the next its gone

the thing for me about independance is, the name is misleading, because its not like your one hand or foot doesnt know what the other is doing and is independent...both sides have to know what is the feeling that the other side feels against the opisite side...they have to get the feeling of what both sides feel like together executing it...then it becomes mucle memory , then the brain starts opening up and looking at it from an independant side

the thing about opisite lead, for example jazz riding, like miharbi sais, put on some cuts and play along, and get the relaxed feel and slowly the opisite hand , that used to lead, will start trying things you know that the old roll of the other hand did, that is now leading...at least jamming with cuts, you can have fun and just try to keep up....laborious exercises can make it tiring and a drag and its easy to quit...but, if you can push ahead on those exercises then you will see results....the magadini thing was a book as far as i remember, i dont know if they have a dvd

good luck

[Barron]

Take Salsa classes.


Dance.

[rinoRotti]

Originally Posted by Barron

Take Salsa classes.


Dance.

[RevWrona]

Are you trying to get ambidextrous with both hands or going for four way ambidexterity/polyrythms?

What I've read it sounds like you are aiming for the ambidextrous with your hands. In that case I've done a couple of things to help. 1. just swing with your left hand till you get comfortable, then 2. start adding some right hand comping until you get comfortable with that. The exercises from John Riley's The Art of Bop Drumming would help you. That book or any jazz instructional book.
Now my answer sounds simple but it won't be. Took me a long time to be able to play decent with my left hand. But start slow and in due time you will be able to.
Another thing I did to help strengthen my left hand was to use it instead of my right. Basic things like brushing my teeth and combing my hair.

Hope my two cents help.