A Question RE: Diatonic Scale Chords, Studying, Improvisation & Transcribing Records

[accordions4eva]

Hi guys,

I'm studying music at college & for my own private study I'm studying Mark Levine's Jazz Theory book. But I have a question regarding diatonic chords.

In Chapter two, Levine explains about the diatonic scale & it's chords.

Cmaj7

Dm7

Em7

Fmaj7#4

G7

Am7

Bm7b5

The reason I'm starting this thread is because of the Fmaj7#4. Why the #4? Yes, the key of F has a Bb & therefore the F Lydian scale is a #4. But then wouldn't the Dm7 = Dm7#6? (as Dm is the relative minor to F, & therefore uses Bb) & the Em7 = Em7b2 (as Em is the relative minor to G, & therefore uses F#).

I'm just starting to learn about music theory & improvisation, so ANY advice is welcome.

PS - In order to learn to improvise like the greats (Coltrane, Hancock etc.), is it better to transcribe the records as opposed to studying textbooks (like me studying Levine's textbook at the moment)?

Many thanks

a4e

[jazz oud]

Originally Posted by accordions4eva

The reason I'm starting this thread is because of the Fmaj7#4. Why the #4? Yes, the key of F has a Bb & therefore the F Lydian scale is a #4. But then wouldn't the Dm7 = Dm7#6? (as Dm is the relative minor to F, & therefore uses Bb) & the Em7 = Em7b2 (as Em is the relative minor to G, & therefore uses F#).

You're right, I expect that he wants to differentiate the tonic and subdominant major chords somehow. It isn't important as long as you know the diatonic tensions in the key.

PS - In order to learn to improvise like the greats (Coltrane, Hancock etc.), is it better to transcribe the records as opposed to studying textbooks (like me studying Levine's textbook at the moment)?

Yes. The only way to really learn is to transcribe. By all means, study theory as a way of making sense of what you transcribe and expanding upon it, but the real knowledge comes from working it out for yourself.

[accordions4eva]

Hi jazz oud,

Thank you for your input! I'm getting into the music of John Coltrane (Impulse) at the moment, & I'm really digging McCoy Tyner's piano. So I think I'll start to transcribe what I can from his piano. In your experience, is Tyner a good place to start transcribing? (I don't think I'm ready to transcribe Coltrane just yet!)

I am new to music theory, & your first paragraph has gone slightly over my head. Would you mind explaining a bit more in - depth? It's lonely here at the back of the class.

I just want to point out to everyone that I'm not criticizing Mark Levine's book in any way here. I think that so far it's a great book & I feel I'm learning a lot from his teaching. I'm merely just trying to get an understanding of theory & jazz.

[jazz oud]

Each chord in the key has a name:

I - tonic
ii - supertonic
iii - mediant
IV - subdominant
V - dominant
vi - submediant
vii - subtonic

"sub" and "super" in this context just mean "below" and "above", and don't have any implied value.

supertonic = above the tonic
mediant = (median) halfway to the the dominant
subdominant = below the dominant
submediant = halfway (down) to the subdominant
subtonic = below the tonic.

The I and IV chords are both major(major7) chords, but have different functions, and the implied tensions are different (4/11 on I, #4/#11 on IV).
Levine just wanted to point out that this is relevant.

To be fair he should have also pointed out that iii implies b9 (as opposed to 9 on ii and vi) and that ii implies #6 (as opposed to b6 on iii and vi), but it doesn't really matter. You just need to know what non-chord tones or extensions are diatonic (contained the key):

I (1 3 5 7 9 11 13)
ii (1 b3 5 b7 9 11 13)
iii (1 b3 5 b7 b9 11 b13)
IV (1 3 5 7 9 #11 13)
V (1 3 5 b7 9 11 13)
vi (1 b3 5 b7 9 11 b13)
viiº (1 b3 b5 b7 b9 11 b13)

Levine's book has a lot of good and useful information. The main criticism I have is that it is more of a reference than an instructional book (in the sense that the information is not presented in a systematic and directed way), so it is important to get a good foundation in basic music theory. "Jazzology" is a good book for a fairly comprehensive foundation, IMO.

[accordions4eva]

Thank you for the information, jazz oud, I'm sure my college has Jazzology in the library so I'll be sure to check it out!

[Aquatist]

Originally Posted by accordions4eva

PS - In order to learn to improvise like the greats (Coltrane, Hancock etc.), is it better to transcribe the records as opposed to studying textbooks (like me studying Levine's textbook at the moment)?

Many thanks

a4e

The Mark Levine book has a great section on transcribing, specifically chapter 12, (pg. 251-252) in the newest edition. Some of the same points are brought to attention.