James By Pat Metheny Analysis:

[MaxShlochz]

Hello, me and my band decided to pick up James for our next concert and

there are a few progressions that don't really make sense to me and I'll be

happy if you'll be able to help.



Here's the progression: (Melody) [A part]

Dmaj7-Gmaj7 -- C#m7b5-Bm7 -- Gmaj7-F#m7 -- Gmaj7-F#m7

Dmaj7-Gmaj7 -- C#m7b5-Bm7 -- Gmaj7-F#m7 -- Gmaj7-F#m7

Gmaj7-A9sus4 -- and then turns around to the top and then to the B part.


Firstly, I can understand the whole progression except the bolded part above:
Why does it goes from F#m7 (which is a III chord of the D major scale) to the I chord?

[At first, I thought that it has something to do with F#m7 being a tonic but I'm not sure if I'm right or wrong so I'll appreciate any kind of analysis of this awesome tune]

Any examples of other tunes that use it will be much appreciated.

[engelbach]

Originally Posted by MaxShlochz

Hello, me and my band decided to pick up James for our next concert and

there are a few progressions that don't really make sense to me and I'll be

happy if you'll be able to help.



Here's the progression: (Melody) [A part]

Dmaj7-Gmaj7 -- C#m7b5-Bm7 -- Gmaj7-F#m7 -- Gmaj7-F#m7

Dmaj7-Gmaj7 -- C#m7b5-Bm7 -- Gmaj7-F#m7 -- Gmaj7-F#m7

Gmaj7-A9sus4 -- and then turns around to the top and then to the B part.


Firstly, I can understand the whole progression except the bolded part above:
Why does it goes from F#m7 (which is a III chord of the D major scale) to the I chord?

[At first, I thought that it has something to do with F#m7 being a tonic but I'm not sure if I'm right or wrong so I'll appreciate any kind of analysis of this awesome tune]

Any examples of other tunes that use it will be much appreciated.

I'm probably not the best person to answer your query as I'm not big on analyzing non-functional progressions.

I can hear and feel the logic in the bass movement and the beautiful sonority of Metheny's work, whether or not I can assign a name to each movement of the chords.

In this progression, I don't hear F#m7 as a sub for the tonic. Rather, it sounds as if it's evading the tonic, continuing the tension of the tune by not letting the G resolve into a cadence to the tonic, until the Asus chord.

[flyin' brian]

Originally Posted by MaxShlochz

Hello, me and my band decided to pick up James for our next concert and

there are a few progressions that don't really make sense to me and I'll be

happy if you'll be able to help.



Here's the progression: (Melody) [A part]

Dmaj7- Gmaj7 -- C#m7b5-Bm7 -- Gmaj7-F#m7 -- Gmaj7-F#m7

One change to what you have above from his book:

Dmaj7 -Gmaj7-A/C#-Bm7


Dmaj7-Gmaj7 -- C#m7b5-Bm7 -- Gmaj7-F#m7 -- Gmaj7-F#m7

Gmaj7-A9sus4 -- and then turns around to the top and then to the B part.


Firstly, I can understand the whole progression except the bolded part above:
Why does it goes from F#m7 (which is a III chord of the D major scale) to the I chord?

[At first, I thought that it has something to do with F#m7 being a tonic but I'm not sure if I'm right or wrong so I'll appreciate any kind of analysis of this awesome tune]

Any examples of other tunes that use it will be much appreciated.

I think that the F#m7 is closer to a tonic than you think. It's almost a substitute for Dmaj7/F# which would indeed make it the tonic.

If you listen to the version on the Trio Live album he's actually playing B and D notes (thirds) over the G in the bass and A and D notes (4ths) over the F# in the bass. So I suspect that even though it's written Gmaj7-F#m7, that the implication is closer to simple G and D.

[Jeff Brent]

"James" analysis:

http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/showthread.php?t=38316


Tunes Index - Changes/Analysis (thx MikeA)

http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/showthread.php?t=37616

[flyin' brian]

I sure don\t know where everybody's getting all of these changes from. I have one sources...Metheny's book and he's a stickler for detail.

It's a pretty simple song that's getting over analyzed to death here.

The chords of the verse from his book:



DM7 GM7 | A/C# Bm7 | GM7 F#m7 | GM7 F#m7

DM7 GM7 | C#m7b5 F#7 Bm7 | GM7 F#m7 | GM7 F#m7 GM7
G/A D |//G/A A

[MaxShlochz]

Originally Posted by Jeff Brent

"James" analysis:

http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/showthread.php?t=38316


Tunes Index - Changes/Analysis (thx MikeA)

http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/showthread.php?t=37616

Thanks Jeff, although I still don't really understand the part when it goes from the III chord back to the I chord, is it common to see that?

Because on most of the tunes I've seen, I didn't see that kind of change, and thanks for the help and the links by the way.

[jazz oud]

Originally Posted by MaxShlochz

Why does it goes from F#m7 (which is a III chord of the D major scale) to the I chord?

It really doesn't, not in a functional sense. Yes, the F#m is followed by D major, but the F# is the resolution of the first phrase (a half-cadence) and then next phrase starts directly with D major.
The F# is sort of a I substitute, but it's still a substitute and not a full cadence. If the progression was:

DM7 GM7 | A/C# Bm7 | GM7 | DM7

DM7 GM7 | ...

or
DM7 GM7 | A/C# Bm7 | GM7 | F#m7

DM7 GM7 | ...

would it still seem strange?

Or more to the point:

DM7 GM7 | A/C# Bm7 | GM7 F#m7 | GM7 F#m7

BbM7 EbM7 | Aø7 D7 Gm | ...

The point being that after a cadence, a new phrase can kind of start anywhere, even in a new key (of course the third example sounds weird if you are thinking of this tune, but it could easily work in another context).

Related, oscillating chord movements are sometimes weird to analyze, because they can function in the bigger picture as if they were one chord.

This movement might sound a bit awkward if it happened in the middle of a phrase, but it would really depend on how it was used; if it was treat as anticipated or delaying a I chord, it would work okay.

The general rule for chord progressions is that the I chord can go to any other chord, and any chord can go to the I chord. iii-I is often weak because it is nearly the same chord, but Debussy used it sometimes, as the iii chord contains the leading tone. Making it iii7 helps even more, because then you also have the note immediately above the tonic, though making the tonic a maj7 weakens the (already weak) leading tone effect a lot.

[MaxShlochz]

Originally Posted by jazz oud

It really doesn't, not in a functional sense. Yes, the F#m is followed by D major, but the F# is the resolution of the first phrase (a half-cadence) and then next phrase starts directly with D major.
The F# is sort of a I substitute, but it's still a substitute and not a full cadence. If the progression was:

DM7 GM7 | A/C# Bm7 | GM7 | DM7

DM7 GM7 | ...

or
DM7 GM7 | A/C# Bm7 | GM7 | F#m7

DM7 GM7 | ...

would it still seem strange?

Or more to the point:

DM7 GM7 | A/C# Bm7 | GM7 F#m7 | GM7 F#m7

BbM7 EbM7 | Aø7 D7 Gm | ...

The point being that after a cadence, a new phrase can kind of start anywhere, even in a new key (of course the third example sounds weird if you are thinking of this tune, but it could easily work in another context).

Related, oscillating chord movements are sometimes weird to analyze, because they can function in the bigger picture as if they were one chord.

This movement might sound a bit awkward if it happened in the middle of a phrase, but it would really depend on how it was used; if it was treat as anticipated or delaying a I chord, it would work okay.

The general rule for chord progressions is that the I chord can go to any other chord, and any chord can go to the I chord. iii-I is often weak because it is nearly the same chord, but Debussy used it sometimes, as the iii chord contains the leading tone. Making it iii7 helps even more, because then you also have the note immediately above the tonic, though making the tonic a maj7 weakens the (already weak) leading tone effect a lot.

Wow, that's really the explanation I was looking for, thanks for taking
the time to explain this.

I'm really starting to like this forum, getting answers to questions that boggled my head for quite a while.