"Peace" chord function question

[michaelsorg]

Originally Posted by jazz oud

Actually, HaVIC5 mentioned it about 3 posts in, which is what seemed to be the disagreement with Jeff:

My apologies! Thanks, jazzoud, don't know how I missed that! But before I totally discredit myself by awakening old threads just because I can't properly read, let me make a remark that ties together a few aspects of this thread: key confusion, different possible functions/analyses, subjective perceptions/interpretations of a tune, and a tune mentioned here "In Your Own Sweet Way."

If you have access to the Real Book 5th edition and the New Real Book 2, you can find 3 different versions of the tune. New Real Book 2 p. 157 has the way Brubeck conceived it and played it at first. YouTube has a nice version where you can watch Dave's hands http://youtu.be/2aHGMDf42lw This version is definitely in Eb. In bar 8 and 16, he plays a Bb7 moving to Eb major on beat 3. This unidiomatic cadence (for jazz) must have given Miles Davis a different idea. I should mention that the Gm7 in bar 2 is changed to a G7 altered here. And in the last A section; Dave extends the final cadence by two bars, going to an Eb minor chord.

One of Miles takes can be heard here http://youtu.be/6T8e2LSF4M4

Miles made a ii-V7-I in Bb out of bars 7-8, 15-16, and 31-32. Out of the extended two bars became 8, and the Eb minor turned into an Ab7 (usually).
These follow what appears in the 5th edition. And the key became Bb.

Most musicians I know play some version of the Miles changes. So out of Miles' perception of the tune was born the common conception for it, even though it differs in one significant point from the composer's: different key. But Dave was apparently OK with that. In this version, you hear him play his changes for the melody, and Miles' changes for the solos! (although it's F7 altered to Bbmaj7 without the Cm7 before). http://youtu.be/XTm_D5s3NVM

Now that's what I call a flexible musician/composer!

[JoeB]

Originally Posted by michaelsorg

What's cool about this tried and true descending progression from A maj is that it gets darker and darker, but takes you to a place of light and refreshment! (either iii mi, or as in this case, a true chord of redemption: IIImaj.

That is very cool if I'm following correctly. Dbmaj9 enharmonically becomes C#maj9 giving IIImaj of A. Can you elaborate a bit on what you mean by "a true chord of redemption"?

One of my favorite tonal shifts to III major is in the B section of "Tangerine". Does the redemption theory hold there too?

[michaelsorg]

Originally Posted by JoeB

That is very cool if I'm following correctly. Dbmaj9 enharmonically becomes C#maj9 giving IIImaj of A. Can you elaborate a bit on what you mean by "a true chord of redemption"?

One of my favorite tonal shifts to III major is in the B section of "Tangerine". Does the redemption theory hold there too?

I always heard that major third up modulation as a cloud-lifting effect. Then I was lucky enough to borrow a copy of Joseph Schillinger's theory book, and he said the same thing. It's not something you can prove, it's just aperception. He talked about degrees of dark and light. For instance, a minor chord going down a major 3rd to a minor was the darkest possibility. The composers of horror scores use it all the time!

[Mike A]

Reminds me of an ender I like to use:

Imaj7 IV7#11 IIImaj7

[JoeB]

Originally Posted by michaelsorg

I always heard that major third up modulation as a cloud-lifting effect. Then I was lucky enough to borrow a copy of Joseph Schillinger's theory book, and he said the same thing. It's not something you can prove, it's just a perception. He talked about degrees of dark and light. For instance, a minor chord going down a major 3rd to a minor was the darkest possibility. The composers of horror scores use it all the time!

Thanks, Michael. The little visit to III major in "Tangerine" along with the lyric always gives me a feeling of "the party's gettin' started". The return to tonic then allows for the darker surprise ending revelation that the party might not be so glamorous.

[engelbach]

Originally Posted by Mike A

Reminds me of an ender I like to use:

Imaj7 IV7#11 IIImaj7

Nice.

[michaelsorg]

Originally Posted by Mike A

Reminds me of an ender I like to use:

Imaj7 IV7#11 IIImaj7

Yeah, very nice. Your idea, or did you hear it somewhere?

Another standard with the III modulation is "I Love You."

[engelbach]

Originally Posted by michaelsorg

Yeah, very nice. Your idea, or did you hear it somewhere?

Another standard with the III modulation is "I Love You."

Ah, yes, one of my favorite devices.

Also ...

Polka Dots and Moonbeams
S'Wonderful
Once in a While
Tea for Two
Baubles, Bangles, and Beads
Gone with the Wind
Too Marvelous for Words
Hey There

[Mike A]

Originally Posted by michaelsorg

Yeah, very nice. Your idea, or did you hear it somewhere?

Actually, credit to Phil Kelly, who mentioned it in an AAJ thread in the form of
I MA9 > IV1311# > III MA9.
http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/showthread.php?t=25867

[michaelsorg]

Originally Posted by engelbach

Ah, yes, one of my favorite devices.

Also ...

Polka Dots and Moonbeams
S'Wonderful
Once in a While
Tea for Two
Baubles, Bangles, and Beads
Gone with the Wind
Too Marvelous for Words
Hey There

Thanks, Jerry! ...and all of them good tunes. One more: Prelude to a Kiss

[JoeB]

Originally Posted by michaelsorg

Thanks, Jerry! ...and all of them good tunes. One more: Prelude to a Kiss

One more of my favorites: If I Were A Bell.

Referring to Schillinger's degrees of light and dark, right before the first transition to III Major the lyric is "Boy, if I were a lamp I'd light".

[Mike A]

Here's Ralph Patt's list of tunes that modulate to III major ...
http://www.ralphpatt.com/List%2049/49.html

[michaelsorg]

Originally Posted by JoeB

One more of my favorites: If I Were A Bell.

Referring to Schillinger's degrees of light and dark, right before the first transition to III Major the lyric is "Boy, if I were a lamp I'd light".

That's a great example, Joe! It's more than subjective, this perception: it's intuitive.

Here's an example of maj III (in the 1st ending) from my library:

Click for audio

[michaelsorg]

Originally Posted by Mike A

Here's Ralph Patt's list of tunes that modulate to III major ...
http://www.ralphpatt.com/List%2049/49.html

That's a great list, Mike! Where do you find such cool stuff? A search?