New/Young Jazz Listener Looking for More (...Like Mingus)

[?uesto]

Hey all.

Young drummer, playing jazz for a little while now and eating it up (same name on Drummerworld). I've fallen in love with Mingus. Tijuana Moods, Blues & Roots, Ah Um, Changes, etc. (Not a fan of his stuff with Eric Dolphy)

I love that soul-bop, hard-bop type of stuff. I'm looking for anything and everything that's like that, but I don't know where to look. Wikipedia has suggested a few artists here and there, but album suggestions would be great.

I also love Dexter Gordon, certain Coltrane, and Miles's 2nd Quintet. (Tony was probably the reason I started to play jazz.)

So anything like Mingus's stuff on those albums I mentioned that you all can suggest? I love the swing, the grittiness, the listenability, and the complexity. Gimme what ya got!

[walkin]

George Russell was a bit like Mingus.I`d recommend Ezz-thetic but Dolphy plays on it so maybe it`s not the one to suggest.Maybe The Outer View or any of the other albums he did in the late `50s/early `60s you might like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfUdAzY9HbU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpgfQNDl6DI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrNf4KL_9SI

Since you like Dexter Gordon and Coltrane,give these a try:

Joe Henderson-Inner Urge

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfw2sgGj02g

Roland Kirk(also known as Rahsaan Roland Kirk)-We Free Kings

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DbL0OT2hIY

Booker Ervin-The Freedom Book

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckQ_7l0cCBM

Hank Mobley-No Room For Squares

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndqxk5J-VHQ

Pharoah Sanders-Karma

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah3XiTIDHds

Wayne Shorter-Speak No Evil

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvRkGglLe-U

[?uesto]

Originally Posted by walkin

George Russell was a bit like Mingus.I`d recommend Ezz-thetic but Dolphy plays on it so maybe it`s not the one to suggest.Maybe The Outer View or any of the other albums he did in the late `50s/early `60s you might like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfUdAzY9HbU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpgfQNDl6DI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrNf4KL_9SI

Since you like Dexter Gordon and Coltrane,give these a try:

Joe Henderson-Inner Urge
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfw2sgGj02g

Roland Kirk(also known as Rahsaan Roland Kirk)-We Free Kings
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DbL0OT2hIY

Booker Ervin-The Freedom Book
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckQ_7l0cCBM

Hank Mobley-No Room For Squares
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndqxk5J-VHQ

Pharoah Sanders-Karma
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah3XiTIDHds

Wayne Shorter-Speak No Evil
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvRkGglLe-U

I already know Inner Urge and Speak No Evil. Both great albums! I think I found Speak No Evil around the same time as I discovered that Miles Quintet. That, along with Takin Off by Herbie. I'll definitely check out those others though. I've seen the names in passing, but now I know a little what they're about. Thanks!

[Alypius]

?uesto, Welcome. Given your question, well, there are vast realms to explore. Basically, the simplest answer is to recommend that you explore most everything that Blue Note put out in the late 1950s and through the 1960s. By the way, many of the best Blue Note recordings have been remastered by the original sound engineer, Rudy Van Gelder, and so look for RVG on the label.

As a drummer, you need to explore almost everything that Art Blakey did in the many and various incarnations of his Jazz Messengers. Blakey was the very definition of hard bop. Many of his best works are on Blue Note, but there are also some great ones on Impulse!

Art Blakey: A Night in Tunisia (1960; RVG remaster, 2004)
Art Blakey: Art Blakey & the Jazz Messengers (Impulse! 1962)
Art Blakey: Ugetsu (Riverside 1963)
Art Blakey: Free for All (1964; RVG remaster, 2004)
Art Blakey: Indestructible (1964; RVG, 2004)

On the "soul bop" side of things, here's a few other Blue Note basics:

Hank Mobley: Soul Station (1960; RVG 1996)
Jimmy Smith: The Sermon (1958; RVG, 2000)
Sonny Clark: Cool Struttin' (1958; RVG, 1999)
Lee Morgan: The Sidewinder (1964; RVG, 1999)
Lee Morgan: The Gigolo (1966; RVG, 2006)
Horace Silver: Song for My Father (1964; RVG, 1999)
Horace Silver: Cape Verdean Blues (1965; RVG, 2003)

Also check out:
Wes Montgomery: Boss Guitar (Original Jazz Classics; remaster: 2010)





Please give us some feedback. Let us know what you find useful. My one concern in what I've recommended is that I'm implying that all the best hardbop -- and the great drummers who were part of that -- was in the 50s and 60s. That's just not the case. There are some very important and immensely talented drummers working today that you should really study (e.g. Brian Blade, Allison Miller, Hamid Drake, Eric Harland, Billy Kilson, Bobby Previte). I and others have a thread called "Playlists for Newcomers". Here's the link:
http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/showthread.php?t=43449
It has a wide array of playlists. Some are chronological ("Best Jazz of 2012", "Best Jazz of 2011"), some are artist-centered (check out the playlist on drummer Brian Blade), and some are instrument-centered ("Jazz Trumpet" "Jazz Piano" "Jazz Bass"). If I get some time, I'll post one on "Jazz Drummers"

[walkin]

Good picks Alypius!Blakey`s Ugetsu came out on Riverside,not Impulse by the way

[?uesto]

Putting all of these in my Spotify playlist. I'll try to listen as much as I can through the weekend.

Alypius, I'm actually doing the title track of Cape Verdean Blues in my jazz combo at school. Very interested to hear the whole album!

I'm amped to hear some of these musicians together. I haven't heard much of a lot of those sidemen outside of some Miles stuff and Joe Henderson on Inner Urge and In N' Out.

I'll definitely tell you all what I think!

[Alypius]

Originally Posted by ?uesto

Putting all of these in my Spotify playlist. I'll try to listen as much as I can through the weekend.

Alypius, I'm actually doing the title track of Cape Verdean Blues in my jazz combo at school. Very interested to hear the whole album!

I'm amped to hear some of these musicians together. I haven't heard much of a lot of those sidemen outside of some Miles stuff and Joe Henderson on Inner Urge and In N' Out.

I'll definitely tell you all what I think!

A couple of years ago, Dave Douglas -- arguably the finest trumpeter working today -- argued that Cape Verdean Blues was all-time best Blue Note release. That's quite a claim -- and the more you explore Blue Note's vast and brilliant archive you'll get a sense of how bold it is. It's certainly in my top 5. You mentioned working on the title track. For me the best tracks are "Pretty Eyes" (#3) and "Bonita" (#5) though "The African Queen" (#2) is pretty spectacular as well.

Keep us posted. When I put together those "Jazz Drummer" playlists, I'll post a link. In the meantime, here's a random list of tracks from contemporary drummers that are on Spotify and that I would strongly recommend:

1. "Running After the Years" -- from Manu Katche, Manu Katche (ECM, 2012) - Drummer: Manu Katche
2. "Star Eyes" -- from Chris Potter, Gratitude (Verve, 2000) - Drummer: Brian Blade
3. "Jazz Crimes" -- from Joshua Redman, Elastic (Warner, 2002) - Drummer: Brian Blade
4. "The Dropper" -- from Medeski, Martin & Wood, The Dropper (Blue Note, 2000) - Drummer: Billy Martin
5. "Junkyard" -- from Medeski, Martin & Wood, Radiolarians II (Indirecto, 2009) - Drummer: Billy Martin
6. "Prime Directive" -- from Dave Holland Quintet, Prime Directive (ECM, 1999) - Drummer: Billy Kilson
7. "Lost and Found" -- from Dave Holland Quintet, Not for Nothin (ECM, 2001) - Drummer: Billy Kilson
8. "Blue Heaven" -- from Dave Douglas, Soul on Soul (Warner, 2001) - Drummer: Joey Baron
9. "Geveruh" -- from John Zorn / Bar Kokhba, The Circle Maker: Zevulun (Tzadik, 1999) - Drummer: Joey Baron
10. "Girl/Boy Song" -- from The Kandinsky Effect, The Kandinksy Effect (2009) - Drummer: Gautier Garrigue
11. "Cheyenne" -- from Allison Miller, Boom Tic Boom (Foxhaven, 2010) - Drummer: Allison Miller
12. "Big Eater" -- from The Bad Plus, These Are the Vistas (Sony, 2003) - Drummer: David King
13. "Drive South, Along the Canyon" -- from Bobby Previte & the New Bump, Set the Alarm for Monday (2008) - Drummer: Bobby Previte
14. "My Son The Wanderer" -- from Scott Amendola Band, Cry (Cryptogrammophone, 2003) - Drummer: Scott Amendola
15. "King Queen" -- from The Nels Cline Singers, Initiate (Cryptogramophone, 2010) - Drummer: Scott Amendola

[?uesto]

Originally Posted by Alypius

A couple of years ago, Dave Douglas -- arguably the finest trumpeter working today -- argued that Cape Verdean Blues was all-time best Blue Note release. That's quite a claim -- and the more you explore Blue Note's vast and brilliant archive you'll get a sense of how bold it is. It's certainly in my top 5. You mentioned working on the title track. For me the best tracks are "Pretty Eyes" (#3) and "Bonita" (#5) though "The African Queen" (#2) is pretty spectacular as well.

Keep us posted. When I put together those "Jazz Drummer" playlists, I'll post a link. In the meantime, here's a random list of tracks from contemporary drummers that are on Spotify and that I would strongly recommend:

1. "Running After the Years" -- from Manu Katche, Manu Katche (ECM, 2012) - Drummer: Manu Katche
2. "Star Eyes" -- from Chris Potter, Gratitude (Verve, 2000) - Drummer: Brian Blade
3. "Jazz Crimes" -- from Joshua Redman, Elastic (Warner, 2002) - Drummer: Brian Blade
4. "The Dropper" -- from Medeski, Martin & Wood, The Dropper (Blue Note, 2000) - Drummer: Billy Martin
5. "Junkyard" -- from Medeski, Martin & Wood, Radiolarians II (Indirecto, 2009) - Drummer: Billy Martin
6. "Prime Directive" -- from Dave Holland Quintet, Prime Directive (ECM, 1999) - Drummer: Billy Kilson
7. "Lost and Found" -- from Dave Holland Quintet, Not for Nothin (ECM, 2001) - Drummer: Billy Kilson
8. "Blue Heaven" -- from Dave Douglas, Soul on Soul (Warner, 2001) - Drummer: Joey Baron
9. "Geveruh" -- from John Zorn / Bar Kokhba, The Circle Maker: Zevulun (Tzadik, 1999) - Drummer: Joey Baron
10. "Girl/Boy Song" -- from The Kandinsky Effect, The Kandinksy Effect (2009) - Drummer: Gautier Garrigue
11. "Cheyenne" -- from Allison Miller, Boom Tic Boom (Foxhaven, 2010) - Drummer: Allison Miller
12. "Big Eater" -- from The Bad Plus, These Are the Vistas (Sony, 2003) - Drummer: David King
13. "Drive South, Along the Canyon" -- from Bobby Previte & the New Bump, Set the Alarm for Monday (2008) - Drummer: Bobby Previte
14. "My Son The Wanderer" -- from Scott Amendola Band, Cry (Cryptogrammophone, 2003) - Drummer: Scott Amendola
15. "King Queen" -- from The Nels Cline Singers, Initiate (Cryptogramophone, 2010) - Drummer: Scott Amendola

Sweet! I've got more than I can handle for the next few days. I've seen Brian Blade's name dropped a few times. He's easily my favorite modern jazz drummer. I missed the chance to see the Fellowship band at the Vanguard last time I was in New York (but I did get to see Al Foster/George Mraz Quartet at Birdland instead).

We're also doing Greasy G by Joshua Redman in my jazz combo. I know it's a funk song, but it's still got Blade on drums. I've only listened to Wayne Shorter's new album once so far, but I really like it so far. I'm gonna have to explore more of Blade's playing.

[Justin V]

If you like Changes by Mingus, you should check out the Don Pullen/George Adams Quintet, with fellow Mingus alum Dannie Richmond on drums and Cameron Brown on bass. A good place to start would be the Capitol Vaults Jazz Series, which is the mp3 version of four albums that Pullen did for Blue Note. For $9.99, you get two albums of the aforementioned quintet and two trio albums with Pullen. It was formerly available as a limited-edition set that is now selling north of $100 on Amazon. Also, as a drummer, you'll surely appreciate two album of Richmond, one with Tony Williams and another with Lewis Nash.

[?uesto]

Originally Posted by Justin V

If you like Changes by Mingus, you should check out the Don Pullen/George Adams Quintet, with fellow Mingus alum Dannie Richmond on drums and Cameron Brown on bass. A good place to start would be the Capitol Vaults Jazz Series, which is the mp3 version of four albums that Pullen did for Blue Note. For $9.99, you get two albums of the aforementioned quintet and two trio albums with Pullen. It was formerly available as a limited-edition set that is now selling north of $100 on Amazon. Also, as a drummer, you'll surely appreciate two album of Richmond, one with Tony Williams and another with Lewis Nash.

Fear not! Earth Beams is one of my favorite albums. I love their playing and their compositions. I love the expressive nature of their playing. It's so uninhibited, and all of those guys totally see eye to eye and comp accordingly. Love it so much I had to buy it on vinyl.

I also got the Don Pullen album with Tony on it, (I think it's called New Beginnings) but I didn't like it up first few listens. I'll have to let it simmer for a bit and revisit it, but I didn't really dig it.

[?uesto]

Alright, so thoughts so far upon first listens (some I listened to more):

Soul Station, Cool Struttin, The Sermon, and The Sidewinder.

All really cool albums. Great playing, and almost always swinging. There were a few tunes on each that didn't do much for me, but for the most part, I dug it. The Sidewinder stood out of that bunch most. Billy Higgins flies on the drums and the music moves in a unique/awesome way because of him.

Unfortunately, a lot of this stuff was too clean, (not sure if that's the right word). Everyone was really tight and together, but with the exception of The Sidewinder (and a bit on Cool Struttin'), a lot of it was very straight-ahead and as a result, [dare I say] boring. I'll need to listen to it all more, but upon first and second listen for a lot of these, they didn't move me.

Roland Kirk's We Free Kings, however, was awesome! I loved almost every song. Dug the style, the openness, the rawness, and his playing, especially. He is a wizard! Real tight band, they build tension nicely, and a lot of it's real unique. I think a lot of what I liked about this is what I like about Mingus. Usually not a fan of jazz flute, but he plays the $#!% out of it, and it's all so soulful!

I also kind of liked Pharoah Sander's Karma. It was a bit out there, but very reminiscent of A Love Supreme. I think it'll grow on me. I'm going to check him out more, as well as Sun RA.

I've also been listening to more and more Jackie McLean. I love some of his stuff. Some of the bop(?) is way too fast and really difficult to listen to, but so far I really like Vertigo and Action! Action! Action!.

[walkin]

Kirk is my favorite jazz flutist.Another album you might want to try by him is The Inflated Tear.We Free Kings is my favorite one though
Pharoah Sanders takes some getting into to but once you do you`ll realize how great his music is.You might want to try Tauhid or Thembi next.Also there`s a great album by Sonny Sharrock called Ask The Ages from 1991.Pharoah plays on it plus Coltrane`s drummer Elvin Jones:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmBFD5h9jR0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jks0N05l4OY

[Kevin Murray]

Originally Posted by Alypius

?uesto, Welcome. Given your question, well, there are vast realms to explore.

As a drummer, you need to explore almost everything that Art Blakey did in the many and various incarnations of his Jazz Messengers. Blakey was the very definition of hard bop. Many of his best works are on Blue Note, but there are also some great ones on Impulse!

Art Blakey: A Night in Tunisia (1960; RVG remaster, 2004)


On the "soul bop" side of things, here's a few other Blue Note basics:


Jimmy Smith: The Sermon (1958; RVG, 2000)

Please give us some feedback. Let us know what you find useful. My one concern in what I've recommended is that I'm implying that all the best hardbop -- and the great drummers who were part of that -- was in the 50s and 60s. That's just not the case. There are some very important and immensely talented drummers working today that you should really study (e.g. Brian Blade, Allison Miller, Hamid Drake, Eric Harland, Billy Kilson, Bobby Previte). I and others have a thread called "Playlists for Newcomers". Here's the link:
http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/showthread.php?t=43449
It has a wide array of playlists. Some are chronological ("Best Jazz of 2012", "Best Jazz of 2011"), some are artist-centered (check out the playlist on drummer Brian Blade), and some are instrument-centered ("Jazz Trumpet" "Jazz Piano" "Jazz Bass"). If I get some time, I'll post one on "Jazz Drummers"

Art Blakey is the best call, along with Jimmy Smith. ALSO be sure to check out, for more soul-jazz, Dr. Lonnie Smith. A BEAST. Two of his best records (in my opinion) are:
Live at Club Mozambique
Think!

"Think!" is great featuring the likes of Lee Morgan and David "Fathead" Newman. A Blue Note classic. Also, all of Jimmy Smith's stuff: Midnight Special, Back at the Chicken Shack, etc. I encourage his small group stuff more than the big band things he did with Verve Records.
Two great YouTube videos to check out of Jimmy (Live):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gobKu4UlxSA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDCUj7h_Fuo

These videos are amazing. Also check some Art Blakey (Live):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9z9sU5dXnw