MOANIN' chord changes

[idlemoments]

hey, I was wondering what people usually played over the solo changes of Moanin' ( Fm Ab9 | G7 C7 ) half note values ... do u guys play this with the blues scale? I try to solo over this with like major scale modes n shit but its a real bitch o.O
thanks

[engelbach]

Originally Posted by idlemoments

hey, I was wondering what people usually played over the solo changes of Moanin' ( Fm Ab9 | G7 C7 ) half note values ... do u guys play this with the blues scale? I try to solo over this with like major scale modes n shit but its a real bitch o.O
thanks

Definitely a blues scale. Basically:

F Ab Bb B C Eb

You can solo using just these notes, or you can also add notes from the chords (such as G on G7 and C7, and E on C7) and altered chord tones (such as b9 on C7).

[idlemoments]

hey thanks for the reply so itll work if I stuck to a blues scale but I could, in addition to the blues scale, also use like the notes of the key that each chord implies?

[engelbach]

Originally Posted by idlemoments

hey thanks for the reply so itll work if I stuck to a blues scale but I could, in addition to the blues scale, also use like the notes of the key that each chord implies?

Yes and no. It depends on the sound you want in your solo melody.

If you want a funky sound, the safe strategy is to use the blues scale, plus only certain extra notes that are in the chords.

I emphasize "extra notes that are in the chords," not "notes of the key that each chord implies."

Examples: The G7 may "imply" C major or C minor, but some of the notes in those keys are going to be difficult to integrate into a funky sound in Fm — such as A.

In Moanin', for starters I would stick to the blues scale.

Then I would add the leading tone, E, from the C7 chord.

Then the G from G7 and C7.

Sales pitch: I recommend a book by my sax player Dan Greenblatt, The Blues Scales: Essential Tools for Jazz Improvisation, published by Chuck Sher. It's a step-by-step guide on how to use the basic blues pitches and then gradually incorporate additional notes to expand your vocabulary, and it includes a CD.

Some of the book is elementary, but it never hurts to review the fundamentals.

[idlemoments]

alright , thanks.. I dont use the blues scale all too much but I guess I sohuld for this song then

[Ainulindale]

Was curious if anyone had any further thoughts or ideas for soloing on these changes (the A section primarily). I've been working on this a bit and have come up with a couple shapes that sound nice to me.

Simply outlining the altered and basic chord tones for the II and V sound nice:
1) Avoiding the root gives 4 note shapes:
G7#5b9: F Ab B Eb (b7 b9 M3 #5) and for C7#5#9: E Ab Bb Eb (M3 #5 b7 #9)
Adding another note gives 2 cool sounding pentatonic shapes, both using the b7 b9 #9 M3 and #5 of the chords respectively:
2) G7#5b9: F Ab Bb B Eb (b7 b9 #9 M3 #5) and C7#5#9 (E Ab Bb Db Eb)
I find avoiding the root, especially on C7 helps me resolve lines nicely to C natural when the F minor chord comes around. I think of them as building pentatonic shapes with the b5 instead of the natural 5 off the b7 of a dominant chord. (Another way I see them is as b5 subs, Db913 and Gb913, ... which seems to make sense with that Ab7 preceeding them). By phrasing and grouping these in a certain way, they can sound very scofield-esque.
Adding the roots of the chords gives a nice 6 note shape too.

I guess in the end these notes are really all just "F pentatonic/blues", but I find thinking of them like this helps me structure my lines to outline the chords and resolve to F-7, by being conscious of which 'blue notes' I'm using when and how.

I found some lines from a transcription I did of Wes' Bock to Bock work nicely over these changes as well. Conversely, applying lines from ii-7b5 > V7alt > i-7 changes didn't seem to always work so well... I think I might transcribe Benny Golson's solo for some more ideas... If anyone has any other ideas for soloing on these changes I'd love to hear them.

[guitarjazz]

Originally Posted by idlemoments

hey, I was wondering what people usually played over the solo changes of Moanin' ( Fm Ab9 | G7 C7 ) half note values ... do u guys play this with the blues scale? I try to solo over this with like major scale modes n shit but its a real bitch o.O
thanks

Play lots 'o F blues scale and then once in a while throw in the melodic minor modes: F melodic minor, Ab9(Eb melodic minor), G7( Ab melodic minor), C7(Db melodic minor). Note that all these scales share many of the notes of the F blues scale.

[Dosjky]

Hola once again... I was wondering what some of you seasoned jazz musicians thought of this...



...as a left hand part for the solo changes of Moanin'. (Fm / Ab+9 / | G7 / C7 /)?

Also, in the fake book I have, it has written at the top Solo changes (then those chords), am I right in thinking that those chords are used for the solos and the chords for the head are not played at all?

Thank you.

[Dosjky]

or maybe that e in the last beat of the last bar would be better played as an eb for the seventh of the upcoming chord?

[jazz oud]

Originally Posted by Dosjky

Hola once again... I was wondering what some of you seasoned jazz musicians thought of this...



...as a left hand part for the solo changes of Moanin'. (Fm / Ab+9 / | G7 / C7 /)?

Also, in the fake book I have, it has written at the top Solo changes (then those chords), am I right in thinking that those chords are used for the solos and the chords for the head are not played at all?

Thank you.

With extensions, I prefer to play something more like this:
Fm69 / Ab9(13) / | G7#5#9 / C7#5#9 / |

Listen to the way the piano plays on the recording; there are a handful of variations. Of course the bridge changes are used from the head.

[Dosjky]

Originally Posted by jazz oud

With extensions, I prefer to play something more like this:
Fm69 / Ab9(13) / | G7#5#9 / C7#5#9 / |

Listen to the way the piano plays on the recording; there are a handful of variations. Of course the bridge changes are used from the head.

Thank you.

[Haddock]

Originally Posted by guitarjazz

Play lots 'o F blues scale and then once in a while throw in the melodic minor modes: F melodic minor, Ab9(Eb melodic minor), G7( Ab melodic minor), C7(Db melodic minor). Note that all these scales share many of the notes of the F blues scale.

I am finding my melodies form an f melodic minor sound over the C7 chord.. But I've only just started working on the tune recently so I am not sure if that will stay my preferance! Any fresh insights on how to tackle these changes would be great... Anyone?

[jazz oud]

Learning Lee Morgan's solo off the record will provide a lot of insight into approaching this tune. It is pretty simple but very deep.

[Haddock]

Originally Posted by jazz oud

Learning Lee Morgan's solo off the record will provide a lot of insight into approaching this tune. It is pretty simple but very deep.

Thanks.. if this is the Jazz Messengers recording that I think you're referring too then yes I agree.. The first three notes alone are awesome and a true inspirastion.. I think I will take up your advice and study this solo further..