Thornel Schwartz

[duaneiac]

Guitarist Thornel Schwartz, in addition to having one of the coolest and most incongruous names, seems to have been one of the biggest mystery men in jazz. He was in Jimmy Smith's band for years, played with Smith on numerous classic Blue Note sessions, yet I've seen very little information about him. The only info provided by All Music Guide is that he supposedly died Dec. 30, 1977. Can any one verify that information or supply any other details about his life? Where was he born? How did he happen to hook up with Jimmy Smith? Did he ever record under his own name for Blue Note or any other labels? Did he record with any one after his time with Jimmy Smith ended?

[PHILLYQ]

Google 'Thornel Schwartz' and you'll find an interesting discussion on another board...

[SatinDoll]

Sorry I don´t have any info about his activities after Jimmy Smith, but I really like what he did on those early Smith albums like "The Champ". It´s very interesting how he doesn´t only comp, but weaves his lines into Smith´s improvisation. Sometimes the way they play reminds me of some stuff from Ornette´s Prime Time. The guitarist that followed after Schwartz left (Ed McFadden) didn´t have the same density.

[duaneiac]

Originally Posted by PHILLYQ

Google 'Thornel Schwartz' and you'll find an interesting discussion on another board...

Thanks for that tip, PHILLYQ. Here's the link to the discussion you refer to:

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/lof...hp/t27414.html

I was listening to Jimmy Smith's Live At The Club "Baby Grand" Vol. 1 today, which is what inspired this thread. I thought Schwartz played on more of Smith's record's than Magnificent Goldberg mentions, but I defer to his knowledge on such matters. I probably have a couple of the Johnny "Hammond" Smith records on which Schwartz plays and forgot he was on them. I never knew that Johnny "Hammond" Smith recorded an album with Sylvia Syms.

[Eltrain215]

Originally Posted by duaneiac

Guitarist Thornel Schwartz, in addition to having one of the coolest and most incongruous names, seems to have been one of the biggest mystery men in jazz. He was in Jimmy Smith's band for years, played with Smith on numerous classic Blue Note sessions, yet I've seen very little information about him. The only info provided by All Music Guide is that he supposedly died Dec. 30, 1977. Can any one verify that information or supply any other details about his life? Where was he born? How did he happen to hook up with Jimmy Smith? Did he ever record under his own name for Blue Note or any other labels? Did he record with any one after his time with Jimmy Smith ended?

Thornel Schwartz or "Mootsie", as his family and friends affectionately called him, was born and raised in Philadelphia. The third of nine children, he began playing the guitar as a child. He was self taught until he after serving in the Army he utilized his GI Bill and attended music school. He played with many of the great jazz musicians of his time and even gave guitar lessons to George Benson. He did record a couple albums under his name but I can not recall their names. He was one of the funniest people you'd ever meet, he always told jokes and had an array of "one-liners". He enjoyed shooting pool and playing cards, or "Dueces",as he called it, with family and friends on weekends. He died from a heart attack in front of his home late one evening coming back from doing a set. He was such a loveable guy and I'll always have such fond memories of my uncle!

[duaneiac]

Thanks for providing that background info and for sharing your memories of your uncle. He was a really cool, if under rated guitarist.

I'll have to give one of his sessions with Jimmy Smith a spin again soon. It's been too long since I've listened to one of those albums.

[Funkin']

Originally Posted by duaneiac

Guitarist Thornel Schwartz, in addition to having one of the coolest and most incongruous names

Personally I think Tiny Grimes as THE best name of all of jazz.

Anyways, I also discovered Thornel through his playing as a sideman on Mr. Smith's albums. Did he do any leader albums? I haven't seen any mentioned in this thread(unless I'm being completely blind) but would love to know if he made any.

[Heart&Soul]

Looks like he had only one release as a leader:
http://www.allmusic.com/album/soul-cookin-r147043

[Funkin']

Thanks Heart&Soul. I'll have to track it down.

[Vic J]

I often wondered what became of Thornel and also Guitarist Dick Garcia....Anyone know oabout him?.........Greetings from a very cold morning in Amsterdam...below zero....homesick...

[Tenorman]

Look up Page while you're there. She is from Holland

Page -- are you there?

[page]

I'm sure Vic is much too busy for that, but thank you for the thought Tenorman. Yeah Vic, it was the coldest night since 27 years they say. I hope you aren't catching a train to Terneuzen. Have a pleasant stay in our cold country! Sorry to have missed your Bimhuis gig.

[duaneiac]

Getting back to Mr. Schwartz, I've always pronounced his name as "thor-NEL" (rhymes with Cornell). Is that correct?

[Eltrain215]

Originally Posted by duaneiac

Getting back to Mr. Schwartz, I've always pronounced his name as "thor-NEL" (rhymes with Cornell). Is that correct?

"Thor-NEL" is correct. And for those who thought he was Jewish, that's incorrect, he wasn't.

[neobopper]

Originally Posted by Eltrain215

Thornel Schwartz or "Mootsie", as his family and friends affectionately called him, was born and raised in Philadelphia. The third of nine children, he began playing the guitar as a child. He was self taught until he after serving in the Army he utilized his GI Bill and attended music school. He played with many of the great jazz musicians of his time and even gave guitar lessons to George Benson. He did record a couple albums under his name but I can not recall their names. He was one of the funniest people you'd ever meet, he always told jokes and had an array of "one-liners". He enjoyed shooting pool and playing cards, or "Dueces",as he called it, with family and friends on weekends. He died from a heart attack in front of his home late one evening coming back from doing a set. He was such a loveable guy and I'll always have such fond memories of my uncle!

Hi. You are very fortunate to have had Thornel as an uncle. I would like to share an encounter I shared with your uncle. It was 1969 and I had turned 21, so I could go into bars and clubs. It was in the Orchid Lounge (Asbury Park, NJ) where Thornel was playing with Groove Holmes I think. Only organ groups played there because there was no piano. Anyway I was sitting at the bar and Thornel sat down near me on his break. We struck up a conversation that I'm sure centered on music. I Never forgot that. He was just so nice to this kid who was blown away by all the groups that I saw there; Lonnie Smith, Houston Person, George Benson (when only the jazznicks knew who he was). Your comments on his character and personality are right on. I'm a retired teacher, and I used to play out as a local jazz player (organ/keyboard) playing left hand bass lines. Larry Young was my main influence.

I have just about the whole Blue Note discography from 1958-1970 (except piano trios). I probably have all the dates that Thornel was on for Blue Note.

I am kind annoyed at some of the comments that downplayed his virtuosity. Hey, to be able to even share the same bandstand with all the heavyweights that he played means somethin' big to me. Thanks. Howard