Harmonizing a melody

[kingfisher]

Originally Posted by Mike A

If a half cadence is defined as ending a section on V, that's used in countless standards at the end of the first A section, e.g., in an AABA form. It sets up a return to the tonic (or a tonic function substitute) as the first chord of the next A section. Is that what you're talking about?

That's exactly what I was talking about. Not sure they're important in jingles, the more I think about it. I guess it depends on how long the "jingle" is. Ending a section or a phrase on the V chord is precisely all I meant.

[jster]

Originally Posted by kingfisher

That's exactly what I was talking about. Not sure they're important in jingles, the more I think about it. I guess it depends on how long the "jingle" is. Ending a section or a phrase on the V chord is precisely all I meant.

OK, good. I was beginning to think that there was a big misunderstanding going on. Whenever the word 'cadence' gets used in a jazz context, all hell breaks loose. Strictly speaking the half-cadences are at the ends of sections of classical music. I'm on the other computer, but I looked them up and they typically are at the end of one of the middle sections of a longer piece. And things really do come to rest. There is even the usual couple second delay before the next section begins.

For jazz guys, they are typically thinking of a half-cadence (if they think at all in those terms) as a V chord at the end of an A section as was said above. But sometimes you get a V-I right in the middle of an A section and nobody knows what to call that. Like I said, there was a big thread on the guitar site about it that was very unedifying.

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OK, so back to the main issue:

So I know all my cadences. So I have my given melody that I came up with humming it in the shower. Then I sit down and try and figure out which of the bass notes I, IV or V works best. Now where do the minor chords come in? Do I just decide for example, that the sub dominant ii sounds better than the sub dominant IV and put that in? What I am trying to understand now at this moment is how a given melody in a vanilla diatonic functional context suggests/calls for a minor chord. (Let's assume that we are in a major key.) Above I was told to start by looking at the I, IV, V bass notes. OK, fine, but where do minor chords come in?

[Mike A]

Originally Posted by jster

Whenever the word 'cadence' gets used in a jazz context, all hell breaks loose.

Says who?

[jster]

Originally Posted by Mike A

Says who?

Well, I don't want to hijack my own thread with any more digressions about cadence definitions. But here is the thread to which I was referring:
http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/theor...functions.html
And as you can see, there doesn't seem to be much agreement about how to use the term.

[kingfisher]

Originally Posted by jster

OK, so back to the main issue:

So I know all my cadences. So I have my given melody that I came up with humming it in the shower. Then I sit down and try and figure out which of the bass notes I, IV or V works best. Now where do the minor chords come in? Do I just decide for example, that the sub dominant ii sounds better than the sub dominant IV and put that in? What I am trying to understand now at this moment is how a given melody in a vanilla diatonic functional context suggests/calls for a minor chord. (Let's assume that we are in a major key.) Above I was told to start by looking at the I, IV, V bass notes. OK, fine, but where do minor chords come in?

The minor chords are often substitutions for the I, IV, or V. For example, in place of I you could choose iii or vi. You know all this already. For jingles, I think it really is as simple as choosing a chord and listening, choosing another and listening again. I mentioned previously that you should try to make the roots of the chords move either stepwise or by 4ths or 5ths. This idea, simple as it is, generally leads to several different chord progressions. You could then just try them and see which one sounds best to you.

[jster]

Originally Posted by kingfisher

The minor chords are often substitutions for the I, IV, or V. For example, in place of I you could choose iii or vi. You know all this already. For jingles, I think it really is as simple as choosing a chord and listening, choosing another and listening again. I mentioned previously that you should try to make the roots of the chords move either stepwise or by 4ths or 5ths. This idea, simple as it is, generally leads to several different chord progressions. You could then just try them and see which one sounds best to you.

Thanks. That helps a great deal.

As an aside, they are actually a step up from jingles. In some cases, I have just borrowed progressions from standards as per advice from jazz oud. But the best ones typically begin with a melody, so I am trying to get better at harmonizing.

There are lots of discussions about re-harmonization but not so many about harmonization. Most of the harmonization discussions that I have found are on songwriter websites and seem a bit superficial. So I just want to get an idea of how the Broadway guys think about it.