Don Cherry: Symphony for Improvisers

Hutch · July 19th, 2005, 09:58 PM

What's the skinny on this RVG? How does it compare to "Complete Communion"? Anyone?

jlhoots · July 20th, 2005, 09:26 AM

If you're interested at all in Cherry they're both essential.
BTW Where Is Brooklyn is finally coming out as a Conn. in October.

Hutch · July 20th, 2005, 10:10 AM

Yeah, I'm excited about "Where is Brooklyn?".

So, is "Symphony" more outside than "Communion"? I just wanted to get a feel for the recording. It's too bad BN couldn't find any alternate takes... the full album clocks in under 40 minutes!

jlhoots · July 20th, 2005, 04:16 PM

Is "more outside" good or bad?
I like them equally.
Where Is Brooklyn (which I've been waiting for "forever") is probably the most "outside" of all 3. I'll buy it the day it comes out.

Hutch · July 20th, 2005, 04:41 PM

More outside is more outside. I think it depends on how it's performed in regards to it being good or bad.

jlhoots · July 20th, 2005, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hutch

More outside is more outside. I think it depends on how it's performed in regards to it being good or bad.

Right you are.

Hutch · July 21st, 2005, 08:23 AM

I picked it up last night. Nice stuff. And it is more outside than 'Communion'. Nice bowing from Grimes!

Saxman · July 21st, 2005, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hutch

I picked it up last night. Nice stuff. And it is more outside than 'Communion'. Nice bowing from Grimes!

How is Sanders on it? I hesitate because if he's in shrieking/squeaking mode like with Trane, no thanks. I think all of Cherry's work with Ornette is nothing short of brilliant.

If I dig the Ornette quartet, will I dig "Complete Communion?"

Hutch · July 21st, 2005, 09:49 AM

Sanders does play some intense piccolo, but it's mainly on the front-end of track one. I bet you'd like 'Complete Communion' though. There really isn't that "balls-out" overblowing on this release. It's still rather early in Sanders' career for that. Even his first ESP recording is surprisingly tame - almost dull as far as Pharoah records go.

Saxman · July 21st, 2005, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hutch

Sanders does play some intense piccolo, but it's mainly on the front-end of track one. I bet you'd like 'Complete Communion' though. There really isn't that "balls-out" overblowing on this release. It's still rather early in Sanders' career for that. Even his first ESP recording is surprisingly tame - almost dull as far as Pharoah records go.

How is Sanders sax playing on this new RVG? Overblowing or more tame?

Hutch · July 21st, 2005, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saxman

How is Sanders sax playing on this new RVG? Overblowing or more tame?

He does stick to a lot of piccolo throughout since there is Gato on tenor as well. There is some over-blowing but not to the extent of a late-Coltrane session.

Also, I would say that some of Cherry's arranging reflects that of Albert Ayler's during the same period. He borrows from Ayler, Ornette and McLean as regards the addition of Karl Berger on vibes.

stopbobby · July 21st, 2005, 10:04 PM

Sanders sometimes seems like a completely different musician on Coltrane's albums, and I've often wondered why this is so. Am I mistaken in this assumption, or can anyone think of recordings from the same period where Sanders is anywhere near as nuts (and I use the term affectionately) as he is with Coltrane? And, does anyone have any suggestions as to why Sanders's playing with Coltrane is often so distinct from his work in other circumstances (was he under strict instructions from Coltrane? was it simply the energy of the band? . . .)?

Tom K · July 22nd, 2005, 01:34 AM

Re your first question: Listen to Sanders' playing on Michael Mantler's "Communications".

Hutch · July 22nd, 2005, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stopbobby

Sanders sometimes seems like a completely different musician on Coltrane's albums, and I've often wondered why this is so. Am I mistaken in this assumption, or can anyone think of recordings from the same period where Sanders is anywhere near as nuts (and I use the term affectionately) as he is with Coltrane? And, does anyone have any suggestions as to why Sanders's playing with Coltrane is often so distinct from his work in other circumstances (was he under strict instructions from Coltrane? was it simply the energy of the band? . . .)?

I think it did have a lot to do with Trane and his energy. Sanders was supposedly his heir to the throne and one of the only saxmen who fully understood his intentions. Sanders had followed in Tranes footsteps on his own Impulse! recordings and, for the most part, had a similar sound and feel.

SatinDoll · July 26th, 2005, 11:21 PM

Until a few days ago, I only knew "Complete Communion", which I always liked very much. I wasn´t disapointed when listening to "Suite of Improvisers", it´s really the kind of 60´s avantgarde I dig. It would be more dificult to listen if there wouldn´t be even a single bar of 4/4 swing. If it´s got at least a few moments you can tap your foot, snip your finger, I´m gonna like it. And I agree: Henry Grimes´bowing is great. And it was the first time I heard Karl Berger, I think he´s playing very very fine soloes on vibes, and his piano playing behind Cherry on the beginning of the second half of the album.

July 19th, 2005, 09:58 PM	#1
Hutch Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Houston, Texas, USA Posts: 196	Don Cherry: Symphony for Improvisers What's the skinny on this RVG? How does it compare to "Complete Communion"? Anyone?

July 20th, 2005, 09:26 AM	#2
jlhoots Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Santa Fe. NM Posts: 1,382	If you're interested at all in Cherry they're both essential. BTW Where Is Brooklyn is finally coming out as a Conn. in October. __________________ Larry

July 20th, 2005, 04:16 PM	#4
jlhoots Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Santa Fe. NM Posts: 1,382	Is "more outside" good or bad? I like them equally. Where Is Brooklyn (which I've been waiting for "forever") is probably the most "outside" of all 3. I'll buy it the day it comes out. __________________ Larry

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July 20th, 2005, 10:10 AM	#3
Hutch Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Houston, Texas, USA Posts: 196	Yeah, I'm excited about "Where is Brooklyn?". So, is "Symphony" more outside than "Communion"? I just wanted to get a feel for the recording. It's too bad BN couldn't find any alternate takes... the full album clocks in under 40 minutes!

July 20th, 2005, 04:41 PM	#5
Hutch Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Houston, Texas, USA Posts: 196	More outside is more outside. I think it depends on how it's performed in regards to it being good or bad.

July 21st, 2005, 08:23 AM	#7
Hutch Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Houston, Texas, USA Posts: 196	I picked it up last night. Nice stuff. And it is more outside than 'Communion'. Nice bowing from Grimes!

July 21st, 2005, 09:49 AM	#9
Hutch Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Houston, Texas, USA Posts: 196	Sanders does play some intense piccolo, but it's mainly on the front-end of track one. I bet you'd like 'Complete Communion' though. There really isn't that "balls-out" overblowing on this release. It's still rather early in Sanders' career for that. Even his first ESP recording is surprisingly tame - almost dull as far as Pharoah records go.

July 21st, 2005, 10:04 PM	#12
stopbobby Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 198	Sanders sometimes seems like a completely different musician on Coltrane's albums, and I've often wondered why this is so. Am I mistaken in this assumption, or can anyone think of recordings from the same period where Sanders is anywhere near as nuts (and I use the term affectionately) as he is with Coltrane? And, does anyone have any suggestions as to why Sanders's playing with Coltrane is often so distinct from his work in other circumstances (was he under strict instructions from Coltrane? was it simply the energy of the band? . . .)?

July 22nd, 2005, 01:34 AM	#13
Tom K Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: 7°29' E; 47°14' N Posts: 3,279	Re your first question: Listen to Sanders' playing on Michael Mantler's "Communications".

July 26th, 2005, 11:21 PM	#15
SatinDoll Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Vienna Posts: 1,045	Until a few days ago, I only knew "Complete Communion", which I always liked very much. I wasn´t disapointed when listening to "Suite of Improvisers", it´s really the kind of 60´s avantgarde I dig. It would be more dificult to listen if there wouldn´t be even a single bar of 4/4 swing. If it´s got at least a few moments you can tap your foot, snip your finger, I´m gonna like it. And I agree: Henry Grimes´bowing is great. And it was the first time I heard Karl Berger, I think he´s playing very very fine soloes on vibes, and his piano playing behind Cherry on the beginning of the second half of the album.