"What the F**k Happened to Black Popular Music?" Article

[Jeffrey Newton, Esq.]

Originally Posted by Swoop41

What? You want a cookie or something? Does that somehow make your argument more powerful or less illogical?

No thanks to the cookie; I'm on a health kick. My simple point is that I'm actually a musician who has paid his dues, whilst rappers are not musicians; they're rappers who, for some odd reason, seek to compare themselves with musicians.

[clave]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Newton, Esq.

I just joined this forum, and this thread caught my eye. This is a Jazz forum, is it not???

That's right, you're not in court.

[Jeffrey Newton, Esq.]

Originally Posted by Jazz Purist

Well said, Sir, well said. I've never heard of a virtuoso of "turntabling". Makes no sense. Believe it or not, Jeffrey, there are some people on this board who believe that computer generated sound effects such as those from drum machines are an acceptable form of musicianship.

Let's hope we can persuade them to notice the difference!

[Swoop41]

Originally Posted by Copper Scroll

Now if, at this point, I was to say "Oh, big deal. I can manipulate a saxophone in my sleep." would you not feel disrespected? at least a little angry that someone so swiftly minimized the hard work you put into your art? minimized the geniuses that you've played with? even went as far to suggest that what you spent 15 hrs a day doing is not really art or music at all?

My point is that, however much time and effort you've poured into the saxophone, you can't do what Grandmaster Flash or Mixmaster Mike or Terminator X or DJ Jazzy Jeff or DJ Scratch does. And because you don't understand it's aesthetic, you use your experience as a musician as weight behind your ignorant statements that what these men do with turntables is not musical. You use your appreciation of jazz negatively to justify your cultural bias against non-jazz. Get off your high horse and just say "To each his own."

Preach.

[Swoop41]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Newton, Esq.

No thanks to the cookie; I'm on a health kick. My simple point is that I'm actually a musician who has paid his dues, whilst rappers are not musicians; they're rappers who, for some odd reason, seek to compare themselves with musicians.

They're not musicians says who? And furthermore, why should I or anyone else hold your opinion with any more esteem than anyone else's?

I've played guitar for years and have no idea how to play a piano. If I say Herbie Hancock isn't a musician does my opinion hold water?

[Jazz Purist]

Boys and Girls, this is where musicianship is born. Just in case some of you have forgotten what real musical instruments look like, here's a sample.

These are musical instruments:




The Modern B flat Trumpet





The Bass Clarinet





The French Horn




The Violin And Bow


This on the other hand is how we listen to our recorded vinyl:




Which one of the objects above does NOT belong

[Swoop41]

Originally Posted by Jazz Purist

Ladies and Gentlemen, this is where musicianship is born. Just in case some of you have forgotten what real musical instruments look like, here's a sample.

These are musical instruments:




The Modern B flat Trumpet





The Bass Clarinet





The French Horn




The Violin And Bow


This on the other hand, is how we listen to our recorded vinyl:

So your whole argument is that it's impossible for something to have more than one use?

[clave]

Jazz Purist - And your point is???

Really, people won't put up with being talked down to. Perhaps you'd like to talk, instead of just mocking the rest of us?

You don't have to *like* the music - any music - just be thoughtful and listen.

Cool?

[Jeffrey Newton, Esq.]

Originally Posted by Copper Scroll

Now if, at this point, I was to say "Oh, big deal. I can manipulate a saxophone in my sleep." would you not feel disrespected? ...

My point is that, however much time and effort you've poured into the saxophone, you can't do what Grandmaster Flash or Mixmaster Mike or Terminator X or DJ Jazzy Jeff or DJ Scratch does.

1. You can't (at least I don't think so), and neither can rappers, so no disrespect involved.

2. I could. It's no big deal. I'll trade any day with those guys; see what happens..... It would be a joke that I'd win in a heartbeat.

3. I can't do what Tiger Woods does, but I'm trying!

4. For some reason you put Jazz and Rap on the same level. To me, it's not even close....

[clave]

To me...

Precisely.

[Jeffrey Newton, Esq.]

Originally Posted by Swoop41

They're not musicians says who? And furthermore, why should I or anyone else hold your opinion with any more esteem than anyone else's?

I've played guitar for years and have no idea how to play a piano. If I say Herbie Hancock isn't a musician does my opinion hold water?

Goats and ducks arn't musicians either, but they are perfectly good as goats and ducks.

[Swoop41]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Newton, Esq.

1. You can't (at least I don't think so), and neither can rappers, so no disrespect involved.

2. I could. It's no big deal. I'll trade any day with those guys; see what happens..... It would be a joke that I'd win in a heartbeat.

3. I can't do what Tiger Woods does, but I'm trying!

4. For some reason you put Jazz and Rap on the same level. To me, it's not even close....

And you just proved the point you've been fighting against. To you it's not. To you.

Nobody can argue with that, but don't come in here trying to tell me my opinion.

[Swoop41]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Newton, Esq.

Goats and ducks arn't musicians either, but they are perfectly good as goats and ducks.

What in the blue hell is that supposed to mean?

[Jeffrey Newton, Esq.]

Originally Posted by Swoop41

So your whole argument is that it's impossible for something to have more than one use?

I'll say this: if it were not for turntablists, I couldn't buy a new cartridge!

Show me a chromatic turntable....

[clave]