Charles Mingus: Tonight At Noon

xricci · December 19th, 2003, 07:09 AM

I just posted Marc Meyers' opinion piece on Charles Mingus.

Please click the link below then post any comments about the article or Mingus here...

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=979

shawn·m · December 19th, 2003, 09:49 AM

I’ve been preoccupied with the thought of Mingus instructing his sidemen by ear instead of using written notation. Seems to me the goal was similar in some ways to Ornette’s ideas, even predating them. Could Pithecanthropus (released two clean years before Something Else) have influenced Ornette?

SatinDoll · December 19th, 2003, 10:06 AM

yes, shawn-m! I´d also say, Mingus was ahead of his time. But beeing sideman in his group sure wasn´t an easy thing, he sure was not easy to get along with. As a big Mingus fan, I always regretted the fact, that his last group with Jack Walrath, Ricky Ford and Bob Neloms wasn´t recorded properly. That was a great group, I witnessed a live performance of Cumbia and Jazz Fusion, much more exiting than the recorded version.

shawn·m · December 19th, 2003, 10:13 AM

Satin, I can’t begin to tell you how envious I am of anybody who’s ever seen Mingus live. Speaking of sideman, I still can’t believe Knepper returned to the Mingus fold after what happened in his case. Damn fine bone player, too. Easily my favorite of the guys to come out of the 50s and 60s. But then, and like so many others, I think Mingus had a way of bringing out the best in just about anybody.

kh1958 · December 19th, 2003, 11:36 AM

Mingus with Adams, Pullen, Walrath and Richmond was the first jazz concert I ever saw, in the fall of 1974. Mingus Moves was my first Mingus record a few months before. It was such a thrill to wait for each Mingus record to come out--Mingus at Carnegie Hall came next, then the great Changes recordings of the group I had seen. Followed by a long two year or so wait, as I recall, before the disappointing Three or Four Shades of Blues (compared to the predecessors) was released. Finally, after another wait, Cumbia and Jazz Fusion, another fine record, came out, about the time that I learned Mingus was dying. I didn't know I would only have one opportunity to hear Mingus, Adams and Pullen live.

nkipa · December 19th, 2003, 02:52 PM

Anyone else hear Sue Mingus on Marian McPartland's Piano Jazz a week or two ago? Marian asked her about "Tonight at Noon" and Sue replied that it referred to Mingus and other jazz musicians staying up all night and going to bed at noon.

A few years ago Sue gave a tremendous amount of material to the Library of Congress-- the proper place for the works of a national treasure.

The "Changes" records are among my top 5 jazz recordings of all time. Few musicians were ever so emotionally expressive. Another favorite has always been the live recording at Antibes.

kh1958 · December 19th, 2003, 02:58 PM

Quote:

[i]A few years ago Sue gave a tremendous amount of material to the Library of Congress-- the proper place for the works of a national treasure.

[/B]

This gift appears to have included a number of tapes of unreleased live recordings. There's an index on the LOC website that briefly describes the holdings in the Mingus collection.

clifton · December 20th, 2003, 03:18 AM

I must be one lucky dude, in that I saw quite a few live Mingus performances. One of the best was the Mingus group with Adams, Pullen, Richmond, and Hammiett Bluett, an explosive band that went unrecorded, although there are tapes out there somewhere. Regarding Mingus and Ornette, I'm not sure Mingus directly influenced Ornette, although there are some commonalities, including highly vocalized saxophones, references to mariachi music, and of course, the blues. Mingus made much greater use of pedal points and vamps than Ornette did, however.

kh1958 · December 20th, 2003, 06:35 AM

The Adams, Pullen, Bluiett edition of the Jazz Workshop played the first set at Carnegie Hall in 1974 before the jam session released as Mingus at Carnegie Hall. Altantic recorded it, supposedly, as it shows up in discographies, but has inexplicably never released it.

Valerie · December 20th, 2003, 08:51 AM

I KNOW that I'm very blessed to have heard Mingus live too many times to count during the '60s in NYC. And, icing on the cake, got to hang out with him quite a bit, including some 4AM breakfasts in Chinatown! Must add that he was always a gentleman with me although I certainly was witness to lots of his eccentricities! I still get to reminisce on occasion with some of the few surviving members of his band during that time, like Charles McPherson and Toshiko. I also hold near and dear the times Sue Mingus and I get to share special memories.

clifton · December 23rd, 2003, 03:08 AM

I hear a lot of Mingus in William Parker, in Parker's huge sound and thumping beat, in a willingness to experiment, and in the ability to shape a performance through the sheer power of his bass lines.

xricci · July 12th, 2005, 06:35 AM

i just posted this interview by paul olson...

Sue Mingus: "First and Foremost a Composer"

Valerie · July 12th, 2005, 12:59 PM

Thank you so much, AAJ and Paul Olson, for an absolutely incredible interview!! And, of course, to Sue Mingus, as well!

Everyone should get "We Are Three"! It's amazing, to say the least.

polson · July 12th, 2005, 01:11 PM

Thanks for such kind words...you made my day!

--Paul O.

jazzofonik · July 12th, 2005, 01:55 PM

Let me add my own congrats, Paul. Excellent piece. Interesting comments from Sue about Mingus at home vs. Mingus with band members or record company

December 19th, 2003, 07:09 AM	#1
xricci AAJ's Barrel Roller Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Lansdale, PA Posts: 10,893	Charles Mingus: Tonight At Noon I just posted Marc Meyers' opinion piece on Charles Mingus. Please click the link below then post any comments about the article or Mingus here... http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=979

July 12th, 2005, 06:35 AM	#12
xricci AAJ's Barrel Roller Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Lansdale, PA Posts: 10,893	i just posted this interview by paul olson... Sue Mingus: "First and Foremost a Composer" __________________ Visit Jazz Near You and All About Jazz

July 12th, 2005, 01:55 PM	#15
jazzofonik Da jazz-evangelist Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Kingston, Jamaica Posts: 1,360	Let me add my own congrats, Paul. Excellent piece. Interesting comments from Sue about Mingus at home vs. Mingus with band members or record company __________________ The soul is dyed the colours of its thoughts -Marcus Aurelius

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December 19th, 2003, 09:49 AM	#2
shawn·m tulip or turnip? Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: woodinville, wa Posts: 1,835	I’ve been preoccupied with the thought of Mingus instructing his sidemen by ear instead of using written notation. Seems to me the goal was similar in some ways to Ornette’s ideas, even predating them. Could Pithecanthropus (released two clean years before Something Else) have influenced Ornette?

December 19th, 2003, 10:06 AM	#3
SatinDoll Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Vienna Posts: 1,063	yes, shawn-m! I´d also say, Mingus was ahead of his time. But beeing sideman in his group sure wasn´t an easy thing, he sure was not easy to get along with. As a big Mingus fan, I always regretted the fact, that his last group with Jack Walrath, Ricky Ford and Bob Neloms wasn´t recorded properly. That was a great group, I witnessed a live performance of Cumbia and Jazz Fusion, much more exiting than the recorded version.

December 19th, 2003, 10:13 AM	#4
shawn·m tulip or turnip? Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: woodinville, wa Posts: 1,835	Satin, I can’t begin to tell you how envious I am of anybody who’s ever seen Mingus live. Speaking of sideman, I still can’t believe Knepper returned to the Mingus fold after what happened in his case. Damn fine bone player, too. Easily my favorite of the guys to come out of the 50s and 60s. But then, and like so many others, I think Mingus had a way of bringing out the best in just about anybody.

December 19th, 2003, 11:36 AM	#5
kh1958 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 853	Mingus with Adams, Pullen, Walrath and Richmond was the first jazz concert I ever saw, in the fall of 1974. Mingus Moves was my first Mingus record a few months before. It was such a thrill to wait for each Mingus record to come out--Mingus at Carnegie Hall came next, then the great Changes recordings of the group I had seen. Followed by a long two year or so wait, as I recall, before the disappointing Three or Four Shades of Blues (compared to the predecessors) was released. Finally, after another wait, Cumbia and Jazz Fusion, another fine record, came out, about the time that I learned Mingus was dying. I didn't know I would only have one opportunity to hear Mingus, Adams and Pullen live.

December 19th, 2003, 02:52 PM	#6
nkipa Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 208	Anyone else hear Sue Mingus on Marian McPartland's Piano Jazz a week or two ago? Marian asked her about "Tonight at Noon" and Sue replied that it referred to Mingus and other jazz musicians staying up all night and going to bed at noon. A few years ago Sue gave a tremendous amount of material to the Library of Congress-- the proper place for the works of a national treasure. The "Changes" records are among my top 5 jazz recordings of all time. Few musicians were ever so emotionally expressive. Another favorite has always been the live recording at Antibes.

December 20th, 2003, 03:18 AM	#8
clifton AAJ's Birdologist Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Clifton Hts., Pa Posts: 2,550	I must be one lucky dude, in that I saw quite a few live Mingus performances. One of the best was the Mingus group with Adams, Pullen, Richmond, and Hammiett Bluett, an explosive band that went unrecorded, although there are tapes out there somewhere. Regarding Mingus and Ornette, I'm not sure Mingus directly influenced Ornette, although there are some commonalities, including highly vocalized saxophones, references to mariachi music, and of course, the blues. Mingus made much greater use of pedal points and vamps than Ornette did, however.

December 20th, 2003, 06:35 AM	#9
kh1958 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 853	The Adams, Pullen, Bluiett edition of the Jazz Workshop played the first set at Carnegie Hall in 1974 before the jam session released as Mingus at Carnegie Hall. Altantic recorded it, supposedly, as it shows up in discographies, but has inexplicably never released it.

December 20th, 2003, 08:51 AM	#10
Valerie Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 1,628	I KNOW that I'm very blessed to have heard Mingus live too many times to count during the '60s in NYC. And, icing on the cake, got to hang out with him quite a bit, including some 4AM breakfasts in Chinatown! Must add that he was always a gentleman with me although I certainly was witness to lots of his eccentricities! I still get to reminisce on occasion with some of the few surviving members of his band during that time, like Charles McPherson and Toshiko. I also hold near and dear the times Sue Mingus and I get to share special memories.

December 23rd, 2003, 03:08 AM	#11
clifton AAJ's Birdologist Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Clifton Hts., Pa Posts: 2,550	I hear a lot of Mingus in William Parker, in Parker's huge sound and thumping beat, in a willingness to experiment, and in the ability to shape a performance through the sheer power of his bass lines.

July 12th, 2005, 12:59 PM	#13
Valerie Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 1,628	Thank you so much, AAJ and Paul Olson, for an absolutely incredible interview!! And, of course, to Sue Mingus, as well! Everyone should get "We Are Three"! It's amazing, to say the least.

July 12th, 2005, 01:11 PM	#14
polson Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 52	Thanks for such kind words...you made my day! --Paul O.