Girl from Ipanema improvisation

[Neven1986]

I'm jazz newbie trying to find his way to improvement.

Please, can someone help me with improvisation on Girl from Ipanema chord progression?

The song begins with Fmaj7 chord, which means that tonality of the song is in F#, am I right? (Because the Fmaj7 is 7th tone of F# scale)
That is how A part of the song begins. Which scale should I use for simple improvisation over the first part of the song, F major or F# major?

The chord progression should look like this

Fmaj7 | Fmaj7 | G7 | G7 |

Gm7 | C7 | Fmaj7 | F#maj7 |

Fmaj7 | Fmaj7 | G7 | G7 |

Gm7 | C7 | Fmaj7 | Fmaj7 |

[Clifford D]

Originally Posted by Neven1986

I'm jazz newbie trying to find his way to improvement.

Please, can someone help me with improvisation on Girl from Ipanema chord progression?

The song begins with Fmaj7 chord, which means that tonality of the song is in F#, am I right? (Because the Fmaj7 is 7th tone of F# scale)
That is how A part of the song begins. Which scale should I use for simple improvisation over the first part of the song, F major or F# major?

The chord progression should look like this

Fmaj7 | Fmaj7 | G7 | G7 |

Gm7 | C7 | Fmaj7 | F#maj7 |

Fmaj7 | Fmaj7 | G7 | G7 |

Gm7 | C7 | Fmaj7 | Fmaj7 |

I think the G7 might work better as G7#11 making
it a candidate for the G Lydian dominant scale.

[Neven1986]

Originally Posted by Clifford D

I think the G7 might work better as G7#11 making
it a candidate for the G Lydian dominant scale.

Aaaaa. If i'm not wrong lydian dominant scale is mixolydian with flat fourth?

[EdByrne]

Originally Posted by Neven1986

I'm jazz newbie trying to find his way to improvement.

Please, can someone help me with improvisation on Girl from Ipanema chord progression?

The song begins with Fmaj7 chord, which means that tonality of the song is in F#, am I right? (Because the Fmaj7 is 7th tone of F# scale)
That is how A part of the song begins. Which scale should I use for simple improvisation over the first part of the song, F major or F# major?

The chord progression should look like this

Fmaj7 | Fmaj7 | G7 | G7 |

Gm7 | C7 | Fmaj7 | F#maj7 |

Fmaj7 | Fmaj7 | G7 | G7 |

Gm7 | C7 | Fmaj7 | Fmaj7 |

The primary key is F (A Sections):

F MA7 (I MA7), G7 (V7/V7 or II7), Gm7 (ii7), Gb7 (bII7 = SubV7), F MA7 (I MA7), Gb7 (SubV7).

Analyses of Bridge: Girl from Ipanema

Db: E: F: (measures 5, 9, & 13 respectively):

//IVMA7/ /bVII7 / /ii7 / /bVII7 / /ii7 / /bVII / /ii7 of ii7 /V7 of ii7 /ii7 /V7-9 //

Key of Db: GbMA7 is IVMA7 in the key of Db; B7 is bVII7 in Db

Key of E: F#m7 is ii7 in E; D7 is bVII in E

(Primary) key of F: Gm7 is ii7; Eb7 is bVII7; Am7 is ii7 of VI in F (secondary ii7); D7-9 is V7 of ii7 in F (secondary V7); Gm7 is ii7, & C7-9 is V7 (in the primary key of F). The modulations to the keys of Db & E are Direct (abrupt). The modulation back to F is Transitory (smoothed out by the secondary ii7, V7: Am7, D7-9, which is ii7 of ii7 in F, to V7 of ii7 in the key of F).

The various keys are not harmonized with the normal straightforward 2, 5s, but rather with ii7s (or IV) to bVIIs (both SD chords in their respective keys). Chords in a progression do not have to be diatonic to function well in a progression in a given key. This has been increasingly more commonplace since around the late 17th century. If the chord is GbMA7 & the chord is M, use uppercase RNs. There are, of course, 2 different systems, 1 in which you use all upper case (bIIm7), & the kind used here, with lower case numerals indicating m (bii7), & upper case numerals indicating M (bII).

This is a very sophisticated bridge. There is, however, a Secondary Dominant & a Substitute D. Melodically, the bridge is essentially a 4-m. motivic sequence that is modulated from the key of Db to E, & then back to F (the final, transitory modulation). They are 2 different forms of SD to SDM (SDM: Subdominant Minor IV to bVII, & ii7 to bVII), with the final 4mm. constituting the consequent (answer) phrase whose accompanying harmonies are a transitory (secondary ii7, V7 of VI to ii7, V7) modulation back to the primary key of F.

From m. 9 on, the tune abruptly modulates back to the primary key of F. Gm7=ii7; Eb7=bVII7; Am7 & D7 combine as a unit to make a secondary 2, 5 of ii7 (Gm7), which moves to V7 (C7). Interestingly, the Eb7, besides functioning as bVII7 in F, can also be viewed as subV7 (SSD: secondary substitute dominant) of D (VI) with an indirect resolution (substituting for A7, which would be V7 of VI (D), because the Am7 briefly intervenes, a harmonic cliché.

If you sing the bridge melody of this tune with solfeggio it becomes clear what the keys actually are, & hence my key analysis. Jobim is basically sequencing the same 4 measures (mi fa mi re mi re do re) before presenting the consequent phrase at the bridge's close. There’s a strong do in each case. The form of the entire tune is AABA. The A sections are all in F Major. The B section begins abruptly in Db, directly to E, directly back to F.

Therefore, the modulation relationship from the primary key of F is: Down a M3 to Db; Up a m3 to E; Up a m2 back to F—all distant relationships. Melodically, the bridge is comprised of a 4-m. antecedent phrase that is sequenced & modulated up a m3, & then again modulated, only up a m2 this time. This followed by & different, consequent (answer) phrase, 2 mm. in length (1/2 as long as the previous phrase, to pick up the pace) which is sequenced down: this time down a M2—but not modulated, since both are in F. This has a conclusive effect, & it doubles the melodic pace as well. This is some fine craftsmanship.

Getting back to global thinking for improvising, think mostly 3 basic keys: F, Db, & E—only with blue notes added (which is what the dominant chords suggest). Of course even more important is to play off of the melody, guide tone line & root progression.

[Neven1986]

Thank you EdByrne, very much

[JonR]

Originally Posted by Neven1986

I'm jazz newbie trying to find his way to improvement.

Please, can someone help me with improvisation on Girl from Ipanema chord progression?

The song begins with Fmaj7 chord, which means that tonality of the song is in F#, am I right? (Because the Fmaj7 is 7th tone of F# scale)
That is how A part of the song begins. Which scale should I use for simple improvisation over the first part of the song, F major or F# major?

The chord progression should look like this

Fmaj7 | Fmaj7 | G7 | G7 |

Gm7 | C7 | Fmaj7 | F#maj7 |

Fmaj7 | Fmaj7 | G7 | G7 |

Gm7 | C7 | Fmaj7 | Fmaj7 |

In case Ed's brilliant analysis is a little over your head....

1. Key of the A section is F major. "Fmaj7" is the tonic chord in F. "maj7" simply means the chord has a major 7th extension (E natural).
2. The C7 chord in bar 6 is normally played as Gb7 (F#7).

The short answer to your question, then, is "F major scale" (NOT F# major). But this song moves out of key a lot, so that scale will sound wrong (in part) as soon as you get to bar 3...

So, a longer answer...

Improvisation scales: A section

Fmaj7, Gm7 = F major scale. (If you use C7 in preference to Gb7, you can use the F major scale on that chord too.)

G7 = G mixolydian (C major), or G lydian dominant = D melodic minor = G-A-B-C#-D-E-F.

Gb7 = Gb lydian dominant = Db melodic minor = Gb-Ab-Bb-C-Db-Eb-Fb(E).

F#maj7 (=Gbmaj7) = F#/Gb lydian (= Db major scale); or F#/Gb major scale.


NB: This is a pretty advanced tune for jazz improvisation! If you're a beginner, my advice is steer clear.
In any case, I think chord-scale theory (as outlined above and below) can be misleading, and often over-complicates things.
The way into improvising on this tune (if you don't already want to run a mile) is - as I said above - to play the melody: learn it by heart. Then study how the chords harmonise (support) the melody: which chord tones does the melody use?
Take note of the 3rds and 7ths of each chord (the so-called "guide tones") and follow them through the sequence.
Playing around with melody notes and guide tones should provide you with plenty of solo material - no need to fully explore all those exotic scales, and it may sound better if you don't anyway.


BRIDGE

This is the hard part! (I know you didn't ask about this bit, so ignore the following if you like...)

|Gbmaj7 / / / |B7 / / / |
|F#m9 / / / |D7 / / / |
|Gm9 / / / |Eb7 / / / |
|Am7 / D7b9b5 / |Gm7 / C7b9b5 / |

These chords look totally unrelated to each other on first glance, but (as Ed says), there is a pattern here.
The second 2 bars are really the 1st two bars 3 half-steps up. (F#m9 is like Amaj7 with an F# bass). (If you're a guitarist, this makes it easy...). Then another half-step up for the 3rd line.

Gbmaj7 = Gb lydian = Db major
B7 = B lydian dominant = F# melodic minor.
As Ed says, it helps to think of these two as the same key (Db), so compare the scales from that root:
Db(C#) major = C# D# E# F# G# A# B#
F# melodic minor = C# D# E# F# G# A B (ie, just 2 notes different)

F#m9 = F# dorian = E major
D7 = D lydian dominant = A melodic minor
(E major: E F# G# A B C# D#)
(A melodic minor: E F# G# A B C D - ie, E major with b6 and b7)

Gm9 = G dorian = F major
Eb7 = Eb lydian dominant = Bb melodic minor (as above, like F major with b6 and b7)

Am7 = A dorian = G major scale
D7b5b9 = D altered = Eb melodic minor (Eb F Gb Ab Bb C D)

Gm7-C7b5b9 = same as above a whole step down.

[EdByrne]

Thanks for the translation, JonR.

[Bill Robinson]

I like the Roman numeral analysis that Ed Byrne gave. Very illuminating, as always.
As much as some criticize this tune as being "cliché", it nonetheless is a "fine piece of craftsmanship".
Sometimes people overlook the "successful" things as being too "sell-out", especially if FM radio or other media has overplayed it or it has become "iconic", but this tune was good to begin with, and has stood the test of time, as anybody with ears (me and my dear late Mother) could tell you the first time they heard it.

[Neven1986]

Thank you, JonR. Thank you for translation.

2 JonR -> It's true i didn't ask for the 2nd (bridge) part of the song, but that was my next question. :P

[Vic J]

The first 8 bars of Ipanema is pretty much the same 1st 8 in: "Watch What Happens, "Take the A Train" So dance the Samba and Desafinado...

[Clifford D]

Originally Posted by Neven1986

Aaaaa. If i'm not wrong lydian dominant scale is mixolydian with flat fourth?

No, Mixolydian with a raised 4th

Better yet, how about Lydian with a flat 7th

[randalljazz]

Originally Posted by JonR

In case Ed's brilliant analysis is a little over your head....

1. Key of the A section is F major. "Fmaj7" is the tonic chord in F. "maj7" simply means the chord has a major 7th extension (E natural).
2. The C7 chord in bar 6 is normally played as Gb7 (F#7).

The short answer to your question, then, is "F major scale" (NOT F# major). But this song moves out of key a lot, so that scale will sound wrong (in part) as soon as you get to bar 3...

So, a longer answer...

Improvisation scales: A section

Fmaj7, Gm7 = F major scale. (If you use C7 in preference to Gb7, you can use the F major scale on that chord too.)

G7 = G mixolydian (C major), or G lydian dominant = D melodic minor = G-A-B-C#-D-E-F.

Gb7 = Gb lydian dominant = Db melodic minor = Gb-Ab-Bb-C-Db-Eb-Fb(E).

F#maj7 (=Gbmaj7) = F#/Gb lydian (= Db major scale); or F#/Gb major scale.


NB: This is a pretty advanced tune for jazz improvisation! If you're a beginner, my advice is steer clear.
In any case, I think chord-scale theory (as outlined above and below) can be misleading, and often over-complicates things.
The way into improvising on this tune (if you don't already want to run a mile) is - as I said above - to play the melody: learn it by heart. Then study how the chords harmonise (support) the melody: which chord tones does the melody use?
Take note of the 3rds and 7ths of each chord (the so-called "guide tones") and follow them through the sequence.
Playing around with melody notes and guide tones should provide you with plenty of solo material - no need to fully explore all those exotic scales, and it may sound better if you don't anyway.


BRIDGE

This is the hard part! (I know you didn't ask about this bit, so ignore the following if you like...)

|Gbmaj7 / / / |B7 / / / |
|F#m9 / / / |D7 / / / |
|Gm9 / / / |Eb7 / / / |
|Am7 / D7b9b5 / |Gm7 / C7b9b5 / |

These chords look totally unrelated to each other on first glance, but (as Ed says), there is a pattern here.
The second 2 bars are really the 1st two bars 3 half-steps up. (F#m9 is like Amaj7 with an F# bass). (If you're a guitarist, this makes it easy...). Then another half-step up for the 3rd line.

Gbmaj7 = Gb lydian = Db major
B7 = B lydian dominant = F# melodic minor.
As Ed says, it helps to think of these two as the same key (Db), so compare the scales from that root:
Db(C#) major = C# D# E# F# G# A# B#
F# melodic minor = C# D# E# F# G# A B (ie, just 2 notes different)

F#m9 = F# dorian = E major
D7 = D lydian dominant = A melodic minor
(E major: E F# G# A B C# D#)
(A melodic minor: E F# G# A B C D - ie, E major with b6 and b7)

Gm9 = G dorian = F major
Eb7 = Eb lydian dominant = Bb melodic minor (as above, like F major with b6 and b7)

Am7 = A dorian = G major scale
D7b5b9 = D altered = Eb melodic minor (Eb F Gb Ab Bb C D)

Gm7-C7b5b9 = same as above a whole step down.

thanks, ed. i've played this tune for decades and never really knew what the first 12 measures of the bridge was about.

[EdByrne]

You're welcome, rj. You're gettin' it. Just analyze a lot of tunes and ask questions. Btw, there are a bunch of my analyses on the freejazzinstitute: standards, classics and originals. Analysis is more fun (and productive) than crossword puzzles; and the more you do, the faster you get at it. This one, though, actually made me work a bit.

[JonR]

Originally Posted by randalljazz

thanks, ed.

Actually your quote was my post. But Ed is due thanks too, of course.

[randalljazz]

Originally Posted by JonR

Actually your quote was my post. But Ed is due thanks too, of course.

sorry, jon. perils of staying up all night! i copied both of your explanations to hard copy, having noted that you began your post "in case ed's brilliant analysis is a little over your head..." thus i was prepared in case i wasn't able to follow what ed was saying, when later i went to re-study the tune with printouts at hand. but, who knows why, i actually got what he said, a sort of moment, and hadn't yet read your thoroughly useful elaboration when i made the above post, inadvertantly quoting yours instead of ed's. humble apologies.