Giant steps

dernaed · June 23rd, 2010, 01:58 PM

I would like to see how you guys are voicing giant steps on piano..I'm not playing with a bass player..Kind of new to jazz.I understand that besides the first few chords it's basically 251's in eb,g and b...The bass really brings that song to life but i wanna know how i can sound good without a bass player...Does anyone mind sharing your voicing with a not so advance piano player????????? Thanks for your help in advance...Any help would be greatly appreciated..

robmid · June 23rd, 2010, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dernaed

I would like to see how you guys are voicing giant steps on piano..I'm not playing with a bass player..Kind of new to jazz.I understand that besides the first few chords it's basically 251's in eb,g and b...The bass really brings that song to life but i wanna know how i can sound good without a bass player...Does anyone mind sharing your voicing with a not so advance piano player????????? Thanks for your help in advance...Any help would be greatly appreciated..

This post might be better in the Musician to Musician section.

Cheers,

BirdBop · June 23rd, 2010, 05:02 PM

If you are new to jazz, I would advise you to steer clear of that tune for a while. A lot of people getting in to jazz nowadays tend to develop a fetish for that tune. The fact is: The kind of phrases you work in on that tune can only be played on coltrane changes without them sounding awkward since the tune has unorthodox key changes.
I would rather start working on blues or rhythm changes if I were you. Those tunes are good vehicles for improvisation, and you can use the vocabulary you attain there in a range of other settings.

I know this is not helping much with your question, but if you tackle more basic things first, you will be able to develop an arrangement on that tune more effortlessly later. If you want to develop basslines, I suggest you work on II-V-Is I-VI-II-Vs in all keys because those are the most common progressions and you can apply this knowledge to a range of settings. Giant Steps is basically II-V-Is and V-Is in three different keys. If you have a lot of basslines down for your II-V-Is, you can start using them in Giant Steps when you feel comfortable.

flat5 · June 24th, 2010, 08:43 AM

You could buy my book.

I told Gregory Herbert once that I found the tune difficult and he seemed to be sincere when he said it was easy to play on. It only uses three major scales. It divides an octave into three major thirds, hence the giant steps. Easy for him, maybe :-)

guitarjazz · June 24th, 2010, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dernaed

I would like to see how you guys are voicing giant steps on piano..I'm not playing with a bass player..Kind of new to jazz.I understand that besides the first few chords it's basically 251's in eb,g and b...The bass really brings that song to life but i wanna know how i can sound good without a bass player...Does anyone mind sharing your voicing with a not so advance piano player????????? Thanks for your help in advance...Any help would be greatly appreciated..

Why don't you just try to play the melody and bass line (start going down whole steps from B) and fill in the voicings yourself. Listen to the recording carefully.

engelbach · June 24th, 2010, 08:32 PM

If you're playing solo piano, with no bass, use shell chords. Here's a left hand that I use on the head.

Fill in the rest of the notes with the right hand, especially the major 7s on the GΔ and EbΔ chords. Note that in the last measure I've got an F#9sus instead of a C#m7, but you can use the latter.

I can't show the melody because of copyright restrictions.

On the solos, the left hand can be simplified.

dernaed · June 24th, 2010, 11:56 PM

thanks guys for all your help

Fred · June 25th, 2010, 01:50 AM

I agree what birdbop says, but sometimes it can be also inspiring trying new things, even if they are not completly within technical reach yet.

Like Engelbach I did not write the melody because of copyrights.
The difference between Engelbachs version and mine however is the wholetone stepwise descending bass line I used. This phenomen you conceive by putting every second chord as an inversion (a 3-4 chord).
Just add the single theme line on top. The rest of the tune you could also use normal drop2 voicings.
Here is the example.

Nor · June 25th, 2010, 04:02 AM

Check this!

http://michalevy.com/giantsteps_download

engelbach · June 25th, 2010, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred

I agree what birdbop says, but sometimes it can be also inspiring trying new things, even if they are not completly within technical reach yet.

Like Engelbach I did not write the melody because of copyrights.
The difference between Engelbachs version and mine however is the wholetone stepwise descending bass line I used. This phenomen you conceive by putting every second chord as an inversion (a 3-4 chord).
Just add the single theme line on top. The rest of the tune you could also use normal drop2 voicings.
Here is the example.

Yours is a very melodic harmony that doesn't use the root for every bass note.

In a couple of places it's a bit hard to reach the melody note, but that could be adjusted.

engelbach · June 25th, 2010, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nor

Check this!

http://michalevy.com/giantsteps_download

I wouldn't recommend rootless chords for solo piano, at least not on the head.

Pianists who play rootless voicings with a bass player usually play in a completely different way when playing solo.

Bill Evans discussed the problems of solo piano, of needing to work the bass in but still maintain the colorful flavor of rootless voicings. Transcriptions of his playing show some interesting solutions.

McCoy Tyner, too, known for the inventiveness of his rootless voicings, uses full-voiced chords when he plays solo. His solo performance of Giant Steps on YouTube is particularly instructive, in the way he uses the whole keyboard. Of course, this playing is beyond the reach of most of us.

beeboss · June 25th, 2010, 02:25 PM

I was having a go at playing this a while ago.
Sometimes I record my playing for my own analysis so I have posted it for your amusement

http://www.divshare.com/download/11270810-d89

critique welcomed

engelbach · June 25th, 2010, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beeboss

I was having a go at playing this a while ago.
Sometimes I record my playing for my own analysis so I have posted it for your amusement

http://www.divshare.com/download/11270810-d89

critique welcomed

Bee,

Impressive!

Those are some world-class chops you've got there.

Who are you?

And welcome to the AAJ Forum.

Cheers,
Jer

beeboss · June 26th, 2010, 03:05 AM

Thanks Engelbach,
I am just another under-employed jazz musician. I'll add some links if I stay here long enough.

Acci · June 29th, 2010, 06:36 AM

off topic but...haha! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyhhbBhCQ2g

I heard of this version but hadn't listened to it before

June 23rd, 2010, 01:58 PM	#1
dernaed Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 11	Giant steps I would like to see how you guys are voicing giant steps on piano..I'm not playing with a bass player..Kind of new to jazz.I understand that besides the first few chords it's basically 251's in eb,g and b...The bass really brings that song to life but i wanna know how i can sound good without a bass player...Does anyone mind sharing your voicing with a not so advance piano player????????? Thanks for your help in advance...Any help would be greatly appreciated..

June 24th, 2010, 08:32 PM	#6
engelbach Piano/Compose/Arrange Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Pátzcuaro, Michoacán, México Posts: 7,188	If you're playing solo piano, with no bass, use shell chords. Here's a left hand that I use on the head. Fill in the rest of the notes with the right hand, especially the major 7s on the GΔ and EbΔ chords. Note that in the last measure I've got an F#9sus instead of a C#m7, but you can use the latter. I can't show the melody because of copyright restrictions. On the solos, the left hand can be simplified. __________________ Jerry Engelbach, piano/arrange/compose Engelbach Music Weaver of Dreams Artwork

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June 23rd, 2010, 05:02 PM	#3
BirdBop Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 71	If you are new to jazz, I would advise you to steer clear of that tune for a while. A lot of people getting in to jazz nowadays tend to develop a fetish for that tune. The fact is: The kind of phrases you work in on that tune can only be played on coltrane changes without them sounding awkward since the tune has unorthodox key changes. I would rather start working on blues or rhythm changes if I were you. Those tunes are good vehicles for improvisation, and you can use the vocabulary you attain there in a range of other settings. I know this is not helping much with your question, but if you tackle more basic things first, you will be able to develop an arrangement on that tune more effortlessly later. If you want to develop basslines, I suggest you work on II-V-Is I-VI-II-Vs in all keys because those are the most common progressions and you can apply this knowledge to a range of settings. Giant Steps is basically II-V-Is and V-Is in three different keys. If you have a lot of basslines down for your II-V-Is, you can start using them in Giant Steps when you feel comfortable.

June 24th, 2010, 08:43 AM	#4
flat5 Sax, Clarinet, Flute Join Date: May 2006 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 529	You could buy my book. I told Gregory Herbert once that I found the tune difficult and he seemed to be sincere when he said it was easy to play on. It only uses three major scales. It divides an octave into three major thirds, hence the giant steps. Easy for him, maybe :-)

June 24th, 2010, 11:56 PM	#7
dernaed Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 11	thanks guys for all your help

June 25th, 2010, 01:50 AM	#8
Fred Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Heidelberg, BW, GER Posts: 242	I agree what birdbop says, but sometimes it can be also inspiring trying new things, even if they are not completly within technical reach yet. Like Engelbach I did not write the melody because of copyrights. The difference between Engelbachs version and mine however is the wholetone stepwise descending bass line I used. This phenomen you conceive by putting every second chord as an inversion (a 3-4 chord). Just add the single theme line on top. The rest of the tune you could also use normal drop2 voicings. Here is the example.

June 25th, 2010, 04:02 AM	#9
Nor Jazz from Morocco Join Date: May 2010 Location: Morocco Posts: 13	Check this! http://michalevy.com/giantsteps_download __________________ Jazzy Yours, -Nor Eddine Bahha Pianist/Author/Composer & Arranger JAZZOLOGY: The Encyclopedia of Jazz Theory for All Musicians

June 25th, 2010, 02:25 PM	#12
beeboss Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 468	I was having a go at playing this a while ago. Sometimes I record my playing for my own analysis so I have posted it for your amusement http://www.divshare.com/download/11270810-d89 critique welcomed

June 26th, 2010, 03:05 AM	#14
beeboss Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 468	Thanks Engelbach, I am just another under-employed jazz musician. I'll add some links if I stay here long enough.

June 29th, 2010, 06:36 AM	#15
Acci Gitariz Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,036	off topic but...haha! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyhhbBhCQ2g I heard of this version but hadn't listened to it before