Wynton Marsalis?

[PiousBionicus]

I have been informed many times that Wynton Marsalis is disliked amoungst the Jazz community, but could someone tell me why? What has he done to get such a bad reputation?

[shawn·m]

The charges are many and usually revolve around Wynton not recognizing the value of all jazz’s history, his opinionated nature, his ongoing personal interest in past musical eras and his receiving kudos and support from conservative critics and agencies.

As for me? I like the guy and his music —especially The Majesty Of the Blues (an older recording, but there you go). I see nothing wrong with exploring established styles, voicing strongly held beliefs or finding some degree of success.

[James]

....................I'm ducking for cover. :-/

[Mnytime]

Originally posted by James
....................I'm ducking for cover. :-/

Tell me about it. Where's Chris?

[Joel]

Anyone know of a website which states what WM idea of jazz is?

If his brother Brandford is eclectic enough to have come up (in hiding mode) with Buckshot Lefonque. I wonder what Wynton thought of it?

and can anyone recommend his best album? I dont own any of his music...not even one song...just one. thanks

[bubber]

One problem with WM might be that we often fail to seperate the man and the musician.

The man - On occasions he's come forward as narrowminded in his opinion on other people's music and on contemporary styles in jazz.

The musician - he can play. His music might be conservative, but that does'nt disqualify him being a good jazz musician. I think Scott Hamilton is a great jazz musician, even if he plays a style of jazz originated before he was born.

That said - what's wrong with the musician WM?

I don't think it primarily has to do with him playing music from Ellington to Miles, to me at least it has to do with a feeling I get from listening to him that his music is kind of cold, even if it is supposed to be hot - he lacks the cry and the
combination of humour and anguish I think most really great musicians communicate.

IMO he can play in the style of King Oliver if he sounds like he mean it.

Another reason why people dislike him probably is that there apparently is some disproportion between quality and exposure, at least compared to most other jazz musicians.

[3pointdeli]

Originally posted by hadi·blues
The charges are many and usually revolve around Wynton not recognizing the value of all jazz’s history, his opinionated nature, his ongoing personal interest in past musical eras and his receiving kudos and support from conservative critics and agencies.

As for me? I like the guy and his music —especially The Majesty Of the Blues (an older recording, but there you go). I see nothing wrong with exploring established styles, voicing strongly held beliefs or finding some degree of success.

well, we're all opinionated, and SHOULD all have strongly held beliefs. the problem people have with wynton is that he has been considered for many years (by everyone except for jazz afficionados) to be the ultimate living authority on jazz. he was featued in the ken burns film FAR more than anyone else (with the possible exception of louis armstrong...how fucked up is that?) and he's been the head of lincoln center's jazz program (which maintains a high profile inside and outside of the jazz world) for several years. when a person in that position discredits large chunks of the jazz music (fusion, free jazz, most avant garde) you can expect there to be some *dislike* towards him.

[John L]

In all fairness, Wynton brought a lot of the controversy on himself. He came on the scene in the early 1980s talking a lot of trash about the state of jazz and many established jazz artists, some of whom were more than old enough to be his father. He proclaimed that nobody accomplished anything in jazz throughout the entire 1970s, that we have to work instead at the higher level of Armstrong and Ellington, etc.

On the one hand, I actually found his brash and confident attitude to be somewhat refreshing. On the other hand, you have to expect that whatever he does after that is going to come under heavy scrutiny. Has Wynton produced the goods in the past 20 years to back it all up? Many would say no.

[kh1958]

It sat on my shelf for quite awhile, but when I finally started listening to it, I found Wynton's Village Vanguard box set to contain much excellent music.

[Claude]

To get an idea what Marsalis is criticized for:


An Open Letter to Stanley Crouch - A Fantasy by Steve Hahn

Audiosyncratic

Acid Jazz Archive: Re: the latest jazz episode

I personnally like his early albums a lot, especially "Black codes from the underground". Simply great tunes and playing, and not yet flawed by his later traditionalism.

[Spiman]

In all fairness, Wynton brought a lot of the controversy on himself. He came on the scene in the early 1980s talking a lot of trash about the state of jazz and many established jazz artists, some of whom were more than old enough to be his father. He proclaimed that nobody accomplished anything in jazz throughout the entire 1970s, that we have to work instead at the higher level of Armstrong and Ellington, etc.

John L

The first recollection I had of Wynton "trash talking" other musicians was in around 1980 when he said "I wouldn't prostitute my horn like that" in reference to Tom Browne's Funkin for Jamaica hit. As a big fan of Tom back in the day, I was incensed. Later, I can to realize that he was railing against what would become smmmmmooooooooth jasssssss.

Since I've been posting at the former board and this one, I've been perplexed by the high level of dissin' of Wynton. So much so that -- as soon as this semster is over -- my plan is to put Wynton on random with Redd Rodney, Sweets Edison, Dave Douglas, Clifford Brown, Lee Morgan, Eddie Henderson, Blanchard, Warren Vache, Hargrove and a few others in the juke box. If what I've been hearing here is true, Wynton should stick out like Chuck Mangione or Kenny G. in this group of real players. The dropoff should be dramatic. Bad tone, lack of swing, formulaic, boring, rehash should be self evident.

In a less charitible moods, I often wonder if some of this vitriol is directed against two Black men (Marsalis and Crouch) for daring to delve into intellectual pursuits on the nature of jazz. Too many times I see or heard the comment "Why doesn't he just shut up and play?" Should he not have strongly held opinions? I for like what Wynton's doing and playing and see no nefarious plot behind his statements and music.

Spiman

[3pointdeli]

>>>In a less charitible moods, I often wonder if some of this vitriol is directed against two Black men (Marsalis and Crouch) for daring to delve into intellectual pursuits on the nature of jazz.<<<

you've got to be kidding me.

[Noj]

Isn't Wynton the dude who was quoted as saying guitars should be banned from jazz? That was a Marsalis comment that I found narrow-minded. Has he ever recorded anything the caliber of a Wes Montgomery or a Grant Green?

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Originally posted by Noj
Isn't Wynton the dude who was quoted as saying guitars should be banned from jazz? That was a Marsalis comment that I found narrow-minded. Has he ever recorded anything the caliber of a Wes Montgomery or a Grant Green?

I believe the guitar quote was Branford's and when taken in context it read like sarcasm to me. That's one of the problems with written word.

Later,
Kevin

[clinthopson]

Whynnie has brought it on himself, see above.

I think my first post on any jazz bulletin board several years ago was that WM was overhyped and not worth of the attention he received. I still stand by that.

But, that being said, I kinda like the new disc with Ellis and his kids.